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What’s The Difference Between Rake And Trail?



Dear MOby,

So is it the rake or the trail that determines how fast or slow a bike steers? Lot of things I read and hear seem to use the two interchangeably at random? Which is it?

Heavy Handed
Read more about What’s The Difference Between Rake And Trail? at Motorcycle.com.
 

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So you don't have to go for the click bait:

Well, the two numbers are so closely related it almost doesn’t matter. Rake, or caster, refers to the angle from vertical at which the steering head is positioned, generally anywhere from 20 to 45 degrees – really sporty bikes being closer to 20 and custom choppers being more like 45. But the main purpose of that rake angle is to achieve the trail that the designer is after, because it’s trail, really, that determines how quickly, and with how much effort, the motorcycle will bend into a turn. A steep rake angle will almost always be accompanied by a trail figure on the short side.



Motorcycle guru and all-around genius Tony Foale conducted some experiments back in the day, circa 1982-83, which have now found their way onto his website. Basically he modified a BMW R75/5 so he could try various rake angles, and found that changing rake from the standard 27 degrees, to 15, then to 0 degrees, really didn’t hurt the BMW’s handling at all; in fact it improved it, as long as trail remained around the standard 3.5 inches or so.

What decreasing rake did affect, and not in a good way, was braking, which suddenly became juddery – but Foale postulated that was more to do with the BMW’s flexy fork tubes than with the modified geometry. You can read the whole thing at the site linked above, under “Experiments with Steering Geometry.” Basically, his experiments prove it’s trail that really determines a bike’s steering characteristics.
 

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So you don't have to go for the click bait:
It's not click bait. Motorcycle.com owns this forum along with countless others, that's why, when you use a web browser, you'll see Motorcycle.com at the bottom of every page. Their generosity is what allows users to have free accounts.
 

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I thought it was thanks to the generosity of the advertisers who pay Motorcycle.com to bother hosting this site. Silly me.
 

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It's not click bait. Motorcycle.com owns this forum along with countless others, that's why, when you use a web browser, you'll see Motorcycle.com at the bottom of every page. Their generosity is what allows users to have free accounts.
It is still click bait. Why won't they post the article here? Because they get more clicks to try to get a higher price for advertising on their other site.

One would think if you own the site then you would post your articles on your site to make it a better site.

And from wiki "Clickbait is a pejorative term for web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines or eye-catching thumbnail pictures to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks."
 

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It is still click bait. Why won't they post the article here? Because they get more clicks to try to get a higher price for advertising on their other site.

One would think if you own the site then you would post your articles on your site to make it a better site.

And from wiki "Clickbait is a pejorative term for web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines or eye-catching thumbnail pictures to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks."
Are you missing the part where motorcycle.com owns both sites?

Why post the exact same article on multiple sites that they own? It makes more sense to post a generic motorcycle article on the generic motorcycle site, and then link to it on bike specific sites. Nothing wrong with them using one of the properties they own to drive traffic to another they own.

And since the OP links to exactly what it says it will, its not clickbait. Clickbait is misleading a reader in order to drive click thru.
 

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Are you missing the part where motorcycle.com owns both sites?

Why post the exact same article on multiple sites that they own? It makes more sense to post a generic motorcycle article on the generic motorcycle site, and then link to it on bike specific sites. Nothing wrong with them using one of the properties they own to drive traffic to another they own.

And since the OP links to exactly what it says it will, its not clickbait. Clickbait is misleading a reader in order to drive click thru.
Are you missing the point where clickbait is used to generate online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines or eye-catching thumbnail pictures to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks?

Having to click to go to another site to see the answer is clickbait plain and simple.
If they own both sites then why not put the article here? Why? Because the clickbait brings in more money for advertising.
How?
They can show how many people view the post here then how many click throughs (clickbait) to read the article on the other site. Using these numbers they now can set advertising rates for both sites. The more who use the clickbait, the higher they can raise the rates.

If it took me ten seconds to cut and paste an article so people didn't have to go for the clickbait then why can't they just post the full article here?
 

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Calm down, children:popcorn:

I'd call it Clickbait Light. Yes they could post it here, and no this website is not a charity. I just checked the Lifetime Membership and it isn't exactly cheap (granted cheap is a subjective term). This is a mutually beneficial website and the link provides mutual beneficial content. I think that's great, as long as we are aware and it's voluntary.

Like they say, if the product is free, you're the product. Which in lately seems to be a fair exchange.
 

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"Trail" is the path you have to take to get to the answer.
"Rake" is the money they take in from advertising.
Oh goodie, it's gonna get interesting if this post turns up being a between the lines reading of "Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance". Specially if that path to get to the answer is curvy >:)
 

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So I google Zen and sport bikes and voila...


Technology will soon make motorcycling something you do not recognize … although you may not fully understand why it is unrecognizable.
Hardware sensors and software algorithms will combine to allow a rider with no experience whatsoever to ride a course faster than Valentino Rossi. Lean angles, accelerative and braking forces will all be optimized to fully exploit the coefficient of friction available from the contact patches offered by the tires given the road surface conditions.


This all means that the rider will be able to ignore the ride. He (or she) can work on his tax return, for example, while riding. No need to focus on the task at hand, because there is no task. The forgotten part of motorcycling will be the essence of the joy it offers. Concentration. Focus. These are the foundations of joy when riding, or, at least, the traditional foundations.
You don’t need to understand Zen (“understanding Zen” is an oxymoron, but that’s an entirely different topic). Unqualified concentration and focus while riding a motorcycle (required because of the inherent dangers) bring a mental peace and joy that will be missing from our brave new world. Reason alone to hang on to the motorcycles that still require it.
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2017/03/zen-and-the-ride/
You are welcome grasshopper...
 

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So I google Zen and sport bikes and voila...


Technology will soon make motorcycling something you do not recognize … although you may not fully understand why it is unrecognizable.
Hardware sensors and software algorithms will combine to allow a rider with no experience whatsoever to ride a course faster than Valentino Rossi. Lean angles, accelerative and braking forces will all be optimized to fully exploit the coefficient of friction available from the contact patches offered by the tires given the road surface conditions.
Maybe, subconsciously, this is the reason when I purchase a new motorcycle I get it without ABS. And try to find a bike without EFI!
 
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