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Regarding safety gear: will ride with helmet, gloves, jacket w/elbow shoulder and spine protection, ad hoc jeans with knee protection, and boots. I'm not a kid, and not going to cut corners here.
I was going by the selfie you posted.
 

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That's terrible advice!

I could give a crap if I "waste" "good" rubber. I've s**t-canned almost brand new OEM rubber because it sucked.
So advising a new rider to spend 300 bucks on new tires that is better advice? His question was if he needed to, and the objective answer is no. OEM tires are good enough by the measure that Kawasaki vets and equips them on hundreds of thousands of bikes without issue. And very few people change their tires straight out the gate so he's not exactly playing his luck here. Sure, I wouldn't buy the same tires again, but by no means does that make them completely unridable or terrible.

If a new rider is putting themself in a situation where the diference between good-enough and great tires is the difference between crashing or not, then they already failed in a different sense. And even for veteran riders, if they don't feel confident at all riding on OEM tires until they're spent, perhaps the issue is more skill than equipment related. Specially on a tame Ninja 300 for gods sake. A different matter is changing them out of vanity, which is perfectly fine - let's just not pretend we'd crash otherwise.

So no, that's not any more terrible advice than than telling someone to spend their hard-earned cash on something they don't need. Once he does wear them out, that's a whole different question.
 

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So advising a new rider to spend 300 bucks on new tires that is better advice? His question was if he needed to, and the objective answer is no. OEM tires are good enough by the measure that Kawasaki vets and equips them on hundreds of thousands of bikes without issue. And very few people change their tires straight out the gate so he's not exactly playing his luck here. Sure, I wouldn't buy the same tires again, but by no means does that make them completely unridable or terrible.

If a new rider is putting themself in a situation where the diference between good-enough and great tires is the difference between crashing or not, then they already failed in a different sense. And even for veteran riders, if they don't feel confident at all riding on OEM tires until they're spent, perhaps the issue is more skill than equipment related. Specially on a tame Ninja 300 for gods sake. A different matter is changing them out of vanity, which is perfectly fine - let's just not pretend we'd crash otherwise.

So no, that's not any more terrible advice than than telling someone to spend their hard-earned cash on something they don't need. Once he does wear them out, that's a whole different question.
Sorry - tires are just about the single most important safety factor that you have control over. The brand new OEM tires on one of my bikes sucked, and I wasn't about to ride on them until they were worn out to replace them. I've replaced other tires (even car tires) that I felt had lost an unacceptable amount of grip or showed signs of deterioration even though the tread depth was still adequate. Inexperienced riders need good tires too - and most often they don't have the experience to know it. I don't know how you can say if they need to make a full-on emergency stop they have screwed-up - that's BS. Anyone, at any time, may need to, and that's where fresh quality tires pay off bigtime.

The money factor doesn't mean squat. Tires are expendable items. Having good tires/gear/equipment pays off in the long run. A questionable tire is going to low-side much easier than a fresh one - what's the cost of fairings and controls these days? How about gear? It's just not worth running a tire that's less than optimum.

His tires may be fine - or not. Without checking dates and looking closely for signs of drying and cracking it's hard to say.

But to tell a new rider to ride until the tires are worn out is just bad advice.

Sorry it ticked you off.

EDIT: I did get a kick out of your dig suggesting that skilled veteran riders should be able to ride to the cords on crappy OEM tires and changing them out before that is strictly vanity - classy!
 

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So advising a new rider to spend 300 bucks on new tires that is better advice? His question was if he needed to, and the objective answer is no. OEM tires are good enough by the measure that Kawasaki vets and equips them on hundreds of thousands of bikes without issue. And very few people change their tires straight out the gate so he's not exactly playing his luck here. Sure, I wouldn't buy the same tires again, but by no means does that make them completely unridable or terrible.

If a new rider is putting themself in a situation where the diference between good-enough and great tires is the difference between crashing or not, then they already failed in a different sense. And even for veteran riders, if they don't feel confident at all riding on OEM tires until they're spent, perhaps the issue is more skill than equipment related. Specially on a tame Ninja 300 for gods sake. A different matter is changing them out of vanity, which is perfectly fine - let's just not pretend we'd crash otherwise.

So no, that's not any more terrible advice than than telling someone to spend their hard-earned cash on something they don't need. Once he does wear them out, that's a whole different question.
Sorry - tires are just about the single most important safety factor that you have control over. The brand new OEM tires on one of my bikes sucked, and I wasn't about to ride on them until they were worn out to replace them. I've replaced other tires (even car tires) that I felt had lost an unacceptable amount of grip or showed signs of deterioration even though the tread depth was still adequate. Inexperienced riders need good tires too - and most often they don't have the experience to know it. I don't know how you can say if they need to make a full-on emergency stop they have screwed-up - that's BS. Anyone, at any time, may need to, and that's where fresh quality tires pay off bigtime.

The money factor doesn't mean squat. Tires are expendable items. Having good tires/gear/equipment pays off in the long run. A questionable tire is going to low-side much easier than a fresh one - what's the cost of fairings and controls these days? How about gear? It's just not worth running a tire that's less than optimum.

His tires may be fine - or not. Without checking dates and looking closely for signs of drying and cracking it's hard to say.

But to tell a new rider to ride until the tires are worn out is just bad advice.

Sorry it ticked you off.

EDIT: I did get a kick out of your dig suggesting that skilled veteran riders should be able to ride to the cords on crappy OEM tires and changing them out before that is strictly vanity - classy!
I'm 100% with @jkv45 on this one - those IRC Road Winners (should've been named Road Losers) that came stock on my 2013 300 were absolute shite. They had a terrible ride, took forever to warm up, and I could push them out on an interstate on-ramp. Sure, they'll go for 5000 miles, but who cares if they're crap. Maybe the DR II's that I've been riding on for the last 4 years wear out faster, but I can still get 3500 - 4000 miles out of a rear and about double that on the front. Plus, stock size tires for a 300 are cheap in comparison to some motorcycles. I absolutely cringe every time we have to put new tires on my husband's Multistrada, but the Ninja? Pfft... I don't even bat an eye when I have to replace the rear halfway through a season.
 

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At this point...what's being argued here?

Is there a benefit to putting better tires on the Ninja? Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, I also slapped on some Pirelli Diablo Rosso II's on with about 1k miles on the original tires. And sure they gripped more.

Are you playing your luck if you don't change out original tires in good condition? Absolutely not. And don't take my word for it. Take Kawasaki and the tens of thousands of riders worldwide who don't/didn't - most of which don't care so much about their bike to join a forum for it. Or for more irony, check the half decent reviews for the tires - and that's people buying and paying for them as replacements! And yeah, I agree with you that I wouldn't pay for them if they weren't included either.

I don't disagree that the tires on the Ninja could be better. Or that an upgrade is worthwhile. I'm just saying that if you're a new rider who doesn't intend to push the bike to its limits, it's not "terrible advice" to say it's okay to put off the expense until they've worn down a bit...like the majority of riders do. It's simply not self-evident that the tires are a death-wish for casual legal riding. If someone wants to push their bike harder and want the extra confidence better tires provide, then sure...but then we're not talking about new riders anymore.

It really depends on how the question is framed. But in any case, I think we can all agree this is just a subjective "to each his own" scenario.
 

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I'm with @Gables_Ninja here.

In the sake of safety, any rider, newbie or expert, has to know what he rides and ride accordingly.
Crashing is on the rider, not on the bike or the tires. You can always go slower, lean less, leave more space to brake.

Thousands of little ninja riders, including myself, worn those OEM tires without accidents and enjoyed every ride.
The blame of a crash is never on a tire, unless the tire just fails and explodes.


It it better to have newer and better tires? Sure.
Is it needed? I'd say no. What he needs is to ride according to his skills and with a good margin for error.


I've put so many miles on old and crappy tires. I'm not saying it's a good or smart thing to do so. I'm just saying it's doable.
I got caught on the highway on a Florida pouring rain on my N250 on those crappy OEM tires many times. I just slowed down and left more space. When I had to brake I would do it gently and slowly. They would brake.
 

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You are giving up way too much margin of safety by accepting poor tires - but that's up to you.

The improvement in braking distance from a new quality tire compared to and old crappy tire is significant, as is its resistance to lock-up. To say you can predict every possible dangerous situation, and allow for it, is BS. What if, while you were doing your braking "gently and slowly" in the rain on your old tires someone decided to change lanes abruptly and reduce your available braking distance?

I've heard plenty of old-timers say they can ride on any old tire that holds air until it's down to the cords, and maybe they can, but some of us old-timers refuse to compromise on important items that directly effect safety - even if they cost too much "hard earned money". Even you (Topaz) admit riding on old tires may not be the smart thing to do - so why suggest it?

Advising a new rider to just deal with poor tires until they wear out is just bad advice.

EDIT: Judging from his "like" I would say oryo is on your side. Maybe there will be others following this debate that will see my point.
 

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To say you can predict every possible dangerous situation, and allow for it, is BS.
I didn't say that. Can't eliminate risk, but slower is safer.


What if, while you were doing your braking "gently and slowly" in the rain on your old tires someone decided to change lanes abruptly and reduce your available braking distance?
$hit can happen. It never did on me though. I may be lucky or I may be effectively riding defensivly.

Probably a good defensive driving course will help you much more than grippy tires on the situation that you described.



Even you (Topaz) admit riding on old tires may not be the smart thing to do - so why suggest it?

Advising a new rider to just deal with poor tires until they wear out is just bad advice.
I mean really crappy and really old tires. Not those nice looking 2015 almost new IRC Road Winner's.


My N250 Road Winner's had almost 10k miles when I changed them. The center was flat and treadless.

I saw the metal threads on the rear tire on my S1000RR more than once. That thing eats more rubber than gas. The ABS engages earlier when the tires are $hitty, though, so the ABS was covering my a$$ there.

In 2011 I bought a 10 years old CBR600 with 300 miles and stock 10 years old tires that looked good to me. I put 6000 miles of slow pace canyon riding, some times on almost freezing temperature, on those tires before I sold the bike with the same tires. No crashes. Always found the place to slow down. Actually, not even close calls or scary situations.



Again, I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, Just saying is doable, and that bike can be ridden with those tires no problem.
Can you crash? Sure, So can you with better tires.


If money is not an issue and he feels like changing the tires, he will do it. He doesn't need us to advice him. He only wnated to hear our opinions, and this is mine.

But if he's on a tight budget, maybe he will find that throwing those tires to the garbage and spend $300 on a new set would be a waste of money.

I would suggest him to ride the bike as it is and then, mile after mile, he will know where he wants to put his money. Just ride according to your skills and know that your tires are not super premium grippy tires.

MSF course is a great defensive riding course. so he must know what dangers he faces.
 

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I saw the metal threads on the rear tire on my S1000RR more than once. That thing eats more rubber than gas. The ABS engages earlier when the tires are $hitty, though, so the ABS was covering my a$$ there.
Well - what is that telling you?

I don't have ABS to cover my ass, so I need to rely on my experience and some good tires. If you are always prepared for a situation, and riding to the limit of the tires, you shouldn't even need ABS.

We are completely different riders, as I wouldn't ride around the block with the cords showing - especially on a S1000.

My opinion is to always err on the side of safety.

To each his own I guess.
 

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If you are always prepared for a situation, and riding to the limit of the tires, you shouldn't even need ABS.
Huh? So a rider doesn't need ABS if they're skilled, but they always need quasi-trackable tires? That's the first time I hear that one. Wouldn't that be akin to us saying that you're fine if you use decent OEM tires and are also prepared for the situation and riding to the limit of your skills? Or taking the opposite point of view, if you always need better tires because surprises happen, wouldn't you "always" need ABS for the same reason? Something really doesn't make sense to me in that equation. What good do better tires do you (compared to ABS) if there's a handful of gravel on the road? ABS would be a lot more useful in that scenario. I'd find it a lot more compelling if you said both ABS and better tires are quasi-necessities for the average rider.

If someone isn't able to activate ABS on their bike with a strong pull of the lever, then it means they've got really poor brakes to begin with. Plus, you can always decide to get better tires once you spend the OEM ones, but you can never decide to get ABS. All in all I find it funny to think that I kinda take the middle ground here: Buy a bike with ABS, spend the OEM tires while you get to know your bike (using it as a reason to not push unknown boundaries), and then swap them for some nice sport tires once they get squared enough to warrant changing.

Anyway, it was interesting to play the topic out nonetheless.
 

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Huh? So a rider doesn't need ABS if they're skilled, but they always need quasi-trackable tires? That's the first time I hear that one. Wouldn't that be akin to us saying that you're fine if you use decent OEM tires and are also prepared for the situation and riding to the limit of your skills? Or taking the opposite point of view, if you always need better tires because surprises happen, wouldn't you "always" need ABS for the same reason? Something really doesn't make sense to me in that equation. What good do better tires do you (compared to ABS) if there's a handful of gravel on the road? ABS would be a lot more useful in that scenario. I'd find it a lot more compelling if you said both ABS and better tires are quasi-necessities for the average rider.

If someone isn't able to activate ABS on their bike with a strong pull of the lever, then it means they've got really poor brakes to begin with. Plus, you can always decide to get better tires once you spend the OEM ones, but you can never decide to get ABS. All in all I find it funny to think that I kinda take the middle ground here: Buy a bike with ABS, spend the OEM tires while you get to know your bike (using it as a reason to not push unknown boundaries), and then swap them for some nice sport tires once they get squared enough to warrant changing.

Anyway, it was interesting to play the topic out nonetheless.
That was a reply to one of your first comments about knowing the limits...no matter what tires you have or situation you are in.
 
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