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Discussion Starter #1
Guys, if you were to choose between:

1. Better brakes and suspensions
2. Electronic aids (TC and riding modes) and a bit of more power (additional 6 HP)

Which would you choose and why?

Reason I'm asking is, I'm planning on getting a new bike and have two in mind now. Which are the Striple 675R and 765S (yes, the base model). They both cost about the same. I don't do tracks btw.

Thanks in advance.
 

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I can't see the 675R go for the same price as a base 765. If I were to buy a 675, I would expect a heavy discount.

How much is the dealer quoting you for the bikes?
 

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If it's just a question of brakes/suspension vs TC/modes then I'ld choose brakes & suspension every day.
6hp on a 600cc really won't make a huge difference unless you are at a race track. Almost every rider I know with any decent experience and capability never use the different "modes" on their bikes. There are also aftermarket TC units that are more adjustable and better than what is offered from factory (and significantly cheaper than upgrading suspension and brakes).
Better brakes/suspension make the ride better whether you are just commuting or racing. You'll be more comfortable, faster and safer
 

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I agree with both cadd and vulgr.

To some extent, suspension upgrades are a form of traction control... they improve both the overall grip level and the degree of communication between rider and contact patch. On the street you will have a greater safety margin due to the added mechanical grip. And when you decide to test the limits (at a track, hopefully) you'll have more precise feedback from the machine.. allowing you to better manage the available traction through the controls you already have. This assumes a suspension set up that's suited to your skill level, of course. As you work to develop your skills a proper set up will reward you at the limit with smooth, controllable slides.. as opposed to the flashing "Traction Control" indicator and the illusion of control.

Another thing to keep in mind.. unless you plan to ride regularly on wet roads with bald tires, traction control on a 600 (or 675, or 765) is mostly unnecessary. I rode a Ninja 636 up in the canyons one day and even with sport touring rubber (Michelin Pilot Road 4) I couldn't get the TC to light up in the corners.. as aggressive as I dared to be with the throttle. Straight up and down, on the harder center compound of the tire, it would intervene readily. But the softer compound on the sides was unphased at my pace. I could up my corner entry speeds.. but on the street I prefer to keep a healthy safety margin "just in case". At the track, on the same tires, I'm sure the TC would be singing. At which point I would be eager to shut it off. And install softer tires.

For real world riding, the 675cc triple is about as good as it gets. The low- and midrange torque make it easy to pull away from stops, and focus more on situational awareness and less on gear selection. Whereas on the 300 I was constantly working the clutch and shifter, the powerband on the 675 is so wide you can "set it and forget it". The 765cc motor is even better, I'm sure. But outside of a back-to-back comparison, I doubt you'd feel like anything was missing.

Both of those bikes should have ABS, which makes a whole lot of sense to me on the street. So just get the one that sings to you and make sure you keep good tires on it. And never stop improving your skills.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I can't see the 675R go for the same price as a base 765. If I were to buy a 675, I would expect a heavy discount.

How much is the dealer quoting you for the bikes?
Yes, the 675R is on a discount/promotion. I guess it's to get rid of all 675Rs before 765 models comes.
In Malaysia, back when 675R was first launched, the price was RM64,900. Now, it's a RM49,900. Both excluding insurance and road taxes.
Now the base model 765S, they told me it'll be priced at under RM50,000. So I guess I would be the same if not cheaper.

If it's just a question of brakes/suspension vs TC/modes then I'ld choose brakes & suspension every day.
6hp on a 600cc really won't make a huge difference unless you are at a race track. Almost every rider I know with any decent experience and capability never use the different "modes" on their bikes. There are also aftermarket TC units that are more adjustable and better than what is offered from factory (and significantly cheaper than upgrading suspension and brakes).
Better brakes/suspension make the ride better whether you are just commuting or racing. You'll be more comfortable, faster and safer
I agree regarding using different "modes." I will be using the bike for commuting, mostly.

I agree with both cadd and vulgr.

To some extent, suspension upgrades are a form of traction control... they improve both the overall grip level and the degree of communication between rider and contact patch. On the street you will have a greater safety margin due to the added mechanical grip. And when you decide to test the limits (at a track, hopefully) you'll have more precise feedback from the machine.. allowing you to better manage the available traction through the controls you already have. This assumes a suspension set up that's suited to your skill level, of course. As you work to develop your skills a proper set up will reward you at the limit with smooth, controllable slides.. as opposed to the flashing "Traction Control" indicator and the illusion of control.

Another thing to keep in mind.. unless you plan to ride regularly on wet roads with bald tires, traction control on a 600 (or 675, or 765) is mostly unnecessary. I rode a Ninja 636 up in the canyons one day and even with sport touring rubber (Michelin Pilot Road 4) I couldn't get the TC to light up in the corners.. as aggressive as I dared to be with the throttle. Straight up and down, on the harder center compound of the tire, it would intervene readily. But the softer compound on the sides was unphased at my pace. I could up my corner entry speeds.. but on the street I prefer to keep a healthy safety margin "just in case". At the track, on the same tires, I'm sure the TC would be singing. At which point I would be eager to shut it off. And install softer tires.

For real world riding, the 675cc triple is about as good as it gets. The low- and midrange torque make it easy to pull away from stops, and focus more on situational awareness and less on gear selection. Whereas on the 300 I was constantly working the clutch and shifter, the powerband on the 675 is so wide you can "set it and forget it". The 765cc motor is even better, I'm sure. But outside of a back-to-back comparison, I doubt you'd feel like anything was missing.

Both of those bikes should have ABS, which makes a whole lot of sense to me on the street. So just get the one that sings to you and make sure you keep good tires on it. And never stop improving your skills.
No, I'm not planning on riding on dry/wet roads with bald tires. But I had a "drifting" incident once when I was transitioning from a wet road to a wet cement (car park). I felt like my heart dropped. I was on Rosso IIs at that time. And THAT incident is the main reason I'm considering the TC/ride modes.

Thank you all for your personal opinions. Much appreciated!:emot-worship:
 

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I totally understand the "heart drop" moment. With my previous larger bikes, I would have to be more mindful with throttle control and how fast I open it up...especially when the tires are cold, the weather is cold and the roads are damp and misty. The only time I have this same experience with the 300 is when accelerating from a dead stop at a toll plaza. So much grimey slick crap on the ground.
 

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If you're not going to track it, just get the base 675 and save even more money.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I totally understand the "heart drop" moment. With my previous larger bikes, I would have to be more mindful with throttle control and how fast I open it up...especially when the tires are cold, the weather is cold and the roads are damp and misty. The only time I have this same experience with the 300 is when accelerating from a dead stop at a toll plaza. So much grimey slick crap on the ground.
Believe me, after that particular incident, I am very mindful on how hard I twist the throttle :laugh2:

If you're not going to track it, just get the base 675 and save even more money.
Unfortunately, the dealership only has the 675R models left, I guess that's why they're selling it cheap. As for the 765, they will be bringing in the base model and the RS. No R. :frown2:
 

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I'd choose suspension and brakes any day personally.

Cost-wise, suspension is going to cost a pretty penny to get fixed. With an aftermarket shock and reworked forks you're probably looking at about at least a grand depending on what you buy and where you get it serviced. Brakes are something that can be fixed more cheaply with stainless steel lines, better pads, and a good bleed all for about 200. If that isn't enough you can buy a better master cylinder for about 200.

You can even add aftermarket traction control, but I'm thinking the new Striple's traction control will be a crude and basic one based off the wheel-speed sensors that the ABS uses. It won't be anything fancy like an inertial unit in the latest literbikes so I don't think TC is a huge plus. It's not going to save you all the time anyways especially a crude system like this. I think the 6 horsepower is pretty irrelevant when you're talking about over 100hp for a naked bike.

Honestly, I think you should really be thinking about the extra cost and depreciation. I would just buy a slightly used Street Triple R if that's what you're set on. You should be able to pick up a nice, clean one for $6500 no problem, at least in SoCal, whereas you're looking at basically double that for a new bike, which is going to depreciate far more quickly.

I think you'll have a great time with either bike and should just go with whatever is cheaper. Either way, you'll have more than enough to work with coming from a Ninja 300. It's an enormous jump in pretty much every way you can think of.
 
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