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Well Kim is kinda guilty of driving past the sandbags many times without doing anything about it. If I were at that track and on my first lap out I drove past and saw those bags, I'd pull into the pits immediately, head over to management and chew some asses out.

As far as missing the morning meeting, that's not going to matter in the trial. Telling the riders there are sandbags right next to the track in a normal runoff area doesn't make it ok. Keigwins is still guilty and they are going to lose this case.

Don't get me wrong, this sucks for all parties involved. But in the end Keigwins is not going to exist, and it's going to be a lesson learned for other orgs to take safety a little more seriously. I know a couple org owners here in the midwest, and I'm pretty sure none of them would have allowed a sandbag next to the track.

The only way Keigwins gets off the hook is if he had each rider sign a statement like "I recognize that there are sandbags close to the track in turn X, and I will drive slower through that turn as a safety precaution. I assume all responsibility for going off the track in turn X, and Keigwins is not liable for any rider hitting a sandbag." Signed, Daniel Kim. Maybe the lesson learned here is that track day orgs need to start adding specifics for each track to their liability waiver.
 

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Zaph, I think that even if they signed such specific waiver it would not be valid in court. it's a bit like I signed a waiver saying "I recognize there are dangerous spikes just off the track and I may be impaled if I exit the track" that does not absolve anyone if I do get impaled.

I think the question in court will be, if the sandbag there was more akin to spikes off the track, or if it was more akin to "there are walls around the track and you're responsible for hitting them if you drive into one".
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Well Kim is kinda guilty of driving past the sandbags many times without doing anything about it. If I were at that track and on my first lap out I drove past and saw those bags, I'd pull into the pits immediately, head over to management and chew some asses out.

As far as missing the morning meeting, that's not going to matter in the trial. Telling the riders there are sandbags right next to the track in a normal runoff area doesn't make it ok. Keigwins is still guilty and they are going to lose this case.

Don't get me wrong, this sucks for all parties involved. But in the end Keigwins is not going to exist, and it's going to be a lesson learned for other orgs to take safety a little more seriously. I know a couple org owners here in the midwest, and I'm pretty sure none of them would have allowed a sandbag next to the track.

The only way Keigwins gets off the hook is if he had each rider sign a statement like "I recognize that there are sandbags close to the track in turn X, and I will drive slower through that turn as a safety precaution. I assume all responsibility for going off the track in turn X, and Keigwins is not liable for any rider hitting a sandbag." Signed, Daniel Kim. Maybe the lesson learned here is that track day orgs need to start adding specifics for each track to their liability waiver.
Zaph, I think that even if they signed such specific waiver it would not be valid in court. it's a bit like I signed a waiver saying "I recognize there are dangerous spikes just off the track and I may be impaled if I exit the track" that does not absolve anyone if I do get impaled.

I think the question in court will be, if the sandbag there was more akin to spikes off the track, or if it was more akin to "there are walls around the track and you're responsible for hitting them if you drive into one".
Here's a copy of the waiver: Keigwins-waiver-old
Completely clear that the rider takes responsibility for his actions. Nobody made him ride at the track. Totally avoidable crash.

SCRAMP, not Keigwins, placed those sand bags for safety reasons and avoid compromising the track surface itself (rain and debris) while still leaving a reasonable margin in an area which shouldn't pose a problem with run off space.
 

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jd41, when I went to the dentist I also signed a waiver. so if I get a little hurt (temporarily) by the numbing shot I am not able to sue. However, if the dentist shows up drunk and injure me by accident, I CAN sue. Because the law says that waivers do not apply to gross negligence.

The judge believes that Kim deserves his day in court so that a jury can decide whether the sandbad is Kim's fault (covered by the waiver) or it is Keigwins' fault. You believe it's Kim's fault. That's fine, but the waiver really does not play much of a role here.

Since it was Keigwins' responsibility to inspect the track, the judge think they may be responsible. As for the track manager/owner, I'm not sure why they were dropped. Maybe because Kim has a contract-responsibility relationship with Keigwins but not with the track owner (Kim paid Keigwins but not the track?).

For example, time ago somebody run down my bike while parked. Their insurance did not want to pay me the full amount. I could not sue their insurance, because they had no obligations to me. I had to sue the driver of the car. (in turn, the driver's insurance had an obligation to the driver)
 

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Zaph, I think that even if they signed such specific waiver it would not be valid in court. it's a bit like I signed a waiver saying "I recognize there are dangerous spikes just off the track and I may be impaled if I exit the track" that does not absolve anyone if I do get impaled.

I think the question in court will be, if the sandbag there was more akin to spikes off the track, or if it was more akin to "there are walls around the track and you're responsible for hitting them if you drive into one".
Yeah I see what you are saying. We'll see how the jury interprets this. Watching with interest. And I'm sure track day org owners around the US are watching with serious concern. :eek:
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
Update regarding WMRRA: Washington Motorcycle Road Racing Association


ROUND 1 — Pacific Raceways, Kent, WA
----FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE----

Per the announcement made on 3/26/2018, we are posting an update regarding the potential cancellation of Round 1 at Pacific Raceways in Kent, WA.

WMRRA is not yet committing to the cancellation of Round 1.

After a very busy, and productive week regarding the Association's insurance status, it has been voted unanimously to extend the cancellation deadline to Monday 4/2 at the close of business. This will allow a couple of last remaining options to be completely explored while leaving every possible opportunity on the table for Round 1 to commence as originally planned. We apologize for any frustration on the part of the membership but feel it is our duty to allow any available opportunities to be exhausted before making this very difficult decision.

New novices- You are at the forefront of our considerations. WMRRA is still unable to announce any updates, or pledge a firm commitment regarding the NRS track-portion. Please understand that we are doing everything we can to honor our obligations and commitments to you, as well as the rest of the membership.

The E-board is reconvening at 5 pm Monday evening to finalize an action plan regarding the NRS, and both boards are planned to conference at 7 pm Monday to discuss further action and direction regarding Round 1, and the season as a whole.

Please continue to be patient as we work through this difficult situation. The outpouring of support is genuinely appreciated, and we hope to find a reasonable solution to this problem.
 

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Here's a copy of the waiver: Keigwins-waiver-old
Completely clear that the rider takes responsibility for his actions. Nobody made him ride at the track. Totally avoidable crash.

SCRAMP, not Keigwins, placed those sand bags for safety reasons and avoid compromising the track surface itself (rain and debris) while still leaving a reasonable margin in an area which shouldn't pose a problem with run off space.
Regardless of the wording of the waiver, if the location of the sandbags constitutes gross negligence (which I would be inclined to suggest it does, Kim's lawyer will certainly argue it does, and the courts will decide whether it does or not) the waiver isn't worth the paper it's written on. Gross negligence cannot be legally waived, even if the waiver states directly that it is. GROSS NEGLIGENCE CAN NEVER BE WAIVED. EVER. "Ordinary" Negligence can, Gross Negligence cannot.

The issue of who's at fault for the location of the sandbags is a bit more complicated to sort out. Yes, SCRAMP placed the sandbags, however I suspect it would be easy (and likely) for SCRAMP to claim that the sandbags are typically removed prior to track use, and the removal is the responsibility of the
organization renting the track. We would have to know more about the agreement/contract between SCRAMP and the organization to comment further, anything else would be speculation. Based on the fact that SCRAMP has already been absolved of legal liability, I expect the determination has been made that the placement of the sandbags falls under the organization's responsibility during events.

From my perspective:
We have an overrun area (which is meant to be a safe area for vehicles to slow and stop on a poorly executed turn).
This "safe" area has an obstacle which directly caused the extent of damage and injuries (from the video above, it seems extremely likely that the accident would not have happened if the rider had not contacted the sandbags).
It has also been stated above that these obstacles are typically removed FOR SAFETY during events (I have not personally confirmed this statement).
Assuming all the above statements are true, the argument that the injuries were a direct result of gross negligence seems valid to me, therefore I would expect the courts to side with the plaintiff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Update on WMRRA: http://www.wmrra.com/

WMRRA Announcement
Round 1, 2018 Season

---FOR IMMEDIATE PUBLIC AND MEDIA RELEASE---

The Washington Motorcycle Road Racing Association is disappointed to announce the official cancellation of Round 1, at Pacific Raceways in Kent Washington.

In September 2017, WMRRA was notified of our then current insurance provider McNaughton, that the association had been absolved of liability regarding an on-track incident during the 2013 race-season. This incident resulted in a lawsuit naming both WMRRA and Pacific Raceways. Although WMRRA was absolved of liability, an arbitration judgment was made against the association's insurance policy which covered the track as an 'Additional insured' party for the race event. WMRRA race-staff had not been asked for testimony, or deposition during this arbitration.

2 weeks prior to our policy renewal date of March 1st- WMRRA was notified that its coverage would not be renewed. 6 weeks later, we have yet to procure an insurance provider willing to offer coverage, due to the judgment. Because WMRRA is unable to secure or guarantee, proper liability coverage we must announce the cancellation for Round 1 of the 2018 season, at Pacific Raceways.

Novices- Because we can not risk the association to litigation without proper insurance coverage, we will be refunding the On-track portion of your NRS fee. Once you complete your NRS on-track portion, WMRRA will issue your novice license as standard. WMRRA will be refunding $200 of your licensing fee, and Mark DeGross with 2-Fast has graciously agreed to offer special pricing in consideration of the situation. Please contact 2-Fast directly to arrange the NRS track-event on 4/13.

On a personal note- We greatly appreciate the outpouring of support and recommendations for providers. WMRRA leadership, in partnership with OMRRA, AFM, and other 3rd parties are still working very hard to ensure success for the remainder of the 2018 race-season.

Thank you.

Oregon Motorcycle Road Racing Association, American Federation of Motorcyclists (AFM), RoadracingWorld.com, WERA Motorcycle Roadracing, American Motorcyclist Association
 

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So online privacy and free speech is under attack, motorcycling track days are under attack and guns as a hobby are under attack. I'm starting to think about calling it quits and taking up quilting as a hobby just to not have to worry about all this drama anymore... :crying:
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
Another article referencing Revzilla: This Crash Lawsuit Could Be Bad News For Track Events Everywhere

Laguna Seca adds these sandbags off-track to direct water when it rains, according to Laguna Seca’s lawyer Andrew Swartz, who was cited as a source by RevZilla. Laguna Seca’s elevation changes are both a blessing and a curse—the very elements that make the track fun also can make tricky puddles on the track surface when it rains, and that preventing erosion due to this runoff is a constant battle. Erosion already appears to have formed a small ditch where the sandbags were in place, which is a hazard in its own right for vehicles that go off-track.
 

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So online privacy and free speech is under attack, motorcycling track days are under attack and guns as a hobby are under attack. I'm starting to think about calling it quits and taking up quilting as a hobby just to not have to worry about all this drama anymore... :crying:
I think we should compensate by having gun shoots at track days with targets set up around the track so we can take a few shots while doing our laps. Google and Facebook can stand by to collect data so they know which guns we want to buy. :D

What's a little disturbing is the population of track day and racing fans who think that a track day or racing org can do no wrong. In this case they did wrong, and then they were unlucky enough to get called out on it by a crazy litigious asshole who thinks a few broken bones are worth 15 million. Then here's where we get the hobbyist segment saying "OMG track days are under fire!!!1!!!" Nobody wants to take responsibility, and it's not just the dork for crashing, it's also the org for not taking care of a safety issue the track. I've got no sympathy for anyone on either side. Don't expect a balanced reasonable review of the issue on any motorcycling forum and you won't be disappointed. Likewise, don't expect a lawsuit to be for a reasonable dollar amount either.
 

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Posting up for anyone who would like to contribute to cover legal fees against this case. Read for more details.

----------------------

Save The Track Days !!! (Go Fund Me link)

As riders, we all know that our passion for motorcycles can be dangerous. Two wheels, coupled with high speeds sometimes results in crashing. We know this, we accept this and the risks involved. Some of us, in the pursuit of better skills and the next level in our passion for riding, take it to the track. A track day is a platform to extend our skillset in a non-competitive environment, the track day provider provides us the opportunity to get out on a race track and hone our skills at our own pace without the rigors and preparation of racing, track days are not race events.

As the consumer of track days, we agree to show up with a mechanically sound motorcycle, leathers/safety gear and an understanding of the dangers that may lay ahead. Everyone in the track day community agrees that the track is a “no-fault” environment, we understand and accept that there is the potential for crashing and injury. Two years ago, a rider came out to a Keigwins’s track day at the world-renowned Laguna Seca Raceway. In his pursuit of honing his skill set, he had an “off track experience” as we refer to in jest in the track day community — he ran off the track surface and crashed.

Now, this may sound like a fundraiser to help him with his medical bills… unfortunately, it is not…
After “unnamed rider” signed up for the track day, signed the accident waiver holding harmless the track day provider, provided his medical insurance and emergency contacts, he then entered the closed course at his own risk. During the course of the track day event, he had an accident while pushing his personal limits and ran off the track, in doing so he impacted water retention sandbags placed far from the track surface by Laguna Seca maintenance staff and crashed.

The race track places these sandbags in key locations - ie. hillsides, water flow areas, etc to prevent water run-off from entering the track surface. The results of his accident have led him to file a lawsuit against the track day provider that spans into the millions.

We’re asking for your help in covering the legal fees to stand up against what is essentially an assault on all track day riders’ ability to get out on a track without having to pursue actual racing.
How does this affect you?

If he is successful in his lawsuit against Keigwins’s at the track day provider, that opens the door for anyone injured at a track day to sue the provider because they weren’t able to get through a track day without crashing. It opens the door to a flood of lawsuits that will drive insurance up for ALL track day providers and opens the door to the very real possibility that track day providers will have to double/triple their prices or risk going out of business.

The owner of Keigwins’s WILL NOT settle out of court and pay a claim that isn’t the responsibility of the track day organizer, this sets a national precedent and puts us all at risk of losing track days and/or seeing prices rise to an unmanageable level for all.

We have attorneys who ride who are willing to help, volunteers willing to help with legal paperwork, expert testimony witnesses donating time, riders willing to show up in Court and be a presence — this is a team effort to protect our passion!

We need your help as well.If you ride, if you live for that 2-wheel life, if you love the freedom that comes on two wheels, whether you ride track or not, track days are in jeopardy and need your help — join the team and help fight to protect our passion
Please donate what you can.
Every little bit helps!!

Any money raised that isn’t used for attorney/court/filing fees will be donated to the motorcycle based safety charity - RRW Action Fund ( RoadracingWorld Action Fund ) in all of our honor.

Thank you,

Szymon Dziadzia

Owner of Keigwins at The Track
Good luck with the suit! I've met Lance Keigwin and he's a stand-up guy. The lawsuit sounds groundless, and it seems you likely have the contracts to protect your interests. I hope you fare well. I'd write an Amicus brief but it's probably way too late for that, haha. People are way too sue-happy sometimes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
Keigwins is closing. Unable to insure after lawsuits or claims regardless of ruling as seen with other orgs that have been sued. Not that anyone cares in this forum comprised mostly of oil questions, pseudointellectuals and bitter baby boomers. :whistling1smilie: lol

There is some reorg going on and a new company should be started. :D. Good for me because I live 10 minutes away and go there all the time.
 

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I have been keeping up on this on other forums. Sad to hear this. I fear more and more organizations are going to close due to rising insurance costs. We only have 1 track day organization here in Texas. That’s not a lot of wiggle room.
 
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I have been keeping up on this on other forums. Sad to hear this. I fear more and more organizations are going to close due to rising insurance costs. We only have 1 track day organization here in Texas. That’s not a lot of wiggle room.
Only one track day org for the whole Texas? That's weird. A nice business opportunity there then. LOL
 

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Keigwins is closing. Unable to insure after lawsuits or claims regardless of ruling as seen with other orgs that have been sued. Not that anyone cares in this forum comprised mostly of oil/ tire questions, pseudointellectuals and bitter baby boomers. :whistling1smilie: lol

There is some reorg going on and a new company should be started. :D. Good for me because I live 10 minutes away and go there all the time.
Yeah. Not a popular thread in this forum. But I guess track riders on this forum read the other forum as well, where the topic has been extensively discussed.

Sorry for you, man. I guess riding at that track it's gonna cost a bit more after the reorg, but from what it looks, they kind of screwed up.


Here in South Florida, I ride two tracks, both run by the same org, and I'd say the safety is taken pretty lightly.
I wouldn't be surprised if some one get on one of those suits and put them in trouble as well.
 

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Keigwins is closing. Unable to insure after lawsuits or claims regardless of ruling as seen with other orgs that have been sued. Not that anyone cares in this forum comprised mostly of oil/ tire questions, pseudointellectuals and bitter baby boomers. :whistling1smilie: lol

There is some reorg going on and a new company should be started. :D. Good for me because I live 10 minutes away and go there all the time.
Bitter baby boomer here, sounding off! Allow me to quote myself for impact:

But in the end Keigwins is not going to exist, and it's going to be a lesson learned for other orgs to take safety a little more seriously.
Honestly, I'm sorry I had to be right. Nothing here to be happy about on either side. And I hate litigious a-holes even more than I hate sandbags right next to the track. At least the a-hole didn't win the lawsuit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #60 ·
Bitter baby boomer here, sounding off! Allow me to quote myself for impact:



Honestly, I'm sorry I had to be right. Nothing here to be happy about on either side. And I hate litigious a-holes even more than I hate sandbags right next to the track. At least the a-hole didn't win the lawsuit.
:signlol:

The only winners here are the attorneys.

"New" TD provider is [email protected] http://cartersatthetrack.com/



I'm signed up for 10/29/18.

Hopefully this org will continue beyond 18.
 
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