[Zaph]

The crasher doesn't have a case. The waivers work and there is a long history of claims like that getting thrown out. This should be a quick easy case for the track day org's lawyer. Precedent has already been set. No orgs are in danger of this case increasing their costs. That statement is just something to drum up sympathy to help them pay for their lawyer.

What I haven't seen in this is if the lawsuit comes from the individual or if it comes from his health insurance company. More often than not, it's a health insurance company trying to recoup funds. The majority of smart people have health insurance before doing a track day. Only a serious idiot does a track day without health insurance.

When you end up in the hospital, your health insurance team goes to work figuring out ways that they don't have to pay. Placing blame on someone other than the rider is the number two way to get out of paying. Number one is if it's a street bike, they try to get your bike insurance to pay, and then you have two insurance companies fighting about it with the unnlucky crash victim in the middle.

 

[Zaph]

Well that sucks for WMRRA.

I have to wonder if the better option for race or track day orgs might be to go without insurance and take all that insurance money saved and set it aside for lawyer fees, should they need to defend themselves if some bonehead crashes and hurts himself. The worst that could happen is an org folds the moment they get sued and the person suing isn't going to get anything.

I've said many times, the only way to win the insurance game is to not play it whenever possible.

 

[Zaph]

Revzilla Blog: Could this lawsuit affect track days and club racing?

I just saw the video posted there and it changed my mind completely on the issue. Keigwins is guilty. 100%. They will lose this case. I was tempted initially to be on the side of the track day org, but after seeing that, I'm not. That org is done.

A F'n sandbag should never be that close to the track. You guys had me thinking the sandbag was way off in the distance.

The video also reinforces my generalization that all track day riders on Panigales are total idiots. He's 20 degrees short of his max lean angle and he still went off the track.

 

[Zaph]

Well Kim is kinda guilty of driving past the sandbags many times without doing anything about it. If I were at that track and on my first lap out I drove past and saw those bags, I'd pull into the pits immediately, head over to management and chew some asses out.

As far as missing the morning meeting, that's not going to matter in the trial. Telling the riders there are sandbags right next to the track in a normal runoff area doesn't make it ok. Keigwins is still guilty and they are going to lose this case.

Don't get me wrong, this sucks for all parties involved. But in the end Keigwins is not going to exist, and it's going to be a lesson learned for other orgs to take safety a little more seriously. I know a couple org owners here in the midwest, and I'm pretty sure none of them would have allowed a sandbag next to the track.

The only way Keigwins gets off the hook is if he had each rider sign a statement like "I recognize that there are sandbags close to the track in turn X, and I will drive slower through that turn as a safety precaution. I assume all responsibility for going off the track in turn X, and Keigwins is not liable for any rider hitting a sandbag." Signed, Daniel Kim. Maybe the lesson learned here is that track day orgs need to start adding specifics for each track to their liability waiver.

 

[Zaph]

Zaph, I think that even if they signed such specific waiver it would not be valid in court. it's a bit like I signed a waiver saying "I recognize there are dangerous spikes just off the track and I may be impaled if I exit the track" that does not absolve anyone if I do get impaled.

I think the question in court will be, if the sandbag there was more akin to spikes off the track, or if it was more akin to "there are walls around the track and you're responsible for hitting them if you drive into one".

Yeah I see what you are saying. We'll see how the jury interprets this. Watching with interest. And I'm sure track day org owners around the US are watching with serious concern.

 

[Zaph]

So online privacy and free speech is under attack, motorcycling track days are under attack and guns as a hobby are under attack. I'm starting to think about calling it quits and taking up quilting as a hobby just to not have to worry about all this drama anymore... :crying:

I think we should compensate by having gun shoots at track days with targets set up around the track so we can take a few shots while doing our laps. Google and Facebook can stand by to collect data so they know which guns we want to buy.

What's a little disturbing is the population of track day and racing fans who think that a track day or racing org can do no wrong. In this case they did wrong, and then they were unlucky enough to get called out on it by a crazy litigious asshole who thinks a few broken bones are worth 15 million. Then here's where we get the hobbyist segment saying "OMG track days are under fire!!!1!!!" Nobody wants to take responsibility, and it's not just the dork for crashing, it's also the org for not taking care of a safety issue the track. I've got no sympathy for anyone on either side. Don't expect a balanced reasonable review of the issue on any motorcycling forum and you won't be disappointed. Likewise, don't expect a lawsuit to be for a reasonable dollar amount either.

 

[Zaph]

Keigwins is closing. Unable to insure after lawsuits or claims regardless of ruling as seen with other orgs that have been sued. Not that anyone cares in this forum comprised mostly of oil/ tire questions, pseudointellectuals and bitter baby boomers. :whistling1smilie: lol

There is some reorg going on and a new company should be started. . Good for me because I live 10 minutes away and go there all the time.

Bitter baby boomer here, sounding off! Allow me to quote myself for impact:

But in the end Keigwins is not going to exist, and it's going to be a lesson learned for other orgs to take safety a little more seriously.

Honestly, I'm sorry I had to be right. Nothing here to be happy about on either side. And I hate litigious a-holes even more than I hate sandbags right next to the track. At least the a-hole didn't win the lawsuit.

 

[Zaph]

About 3-4 years ago, we had 3 or 4 track day organizations. Then there were only 2 left a couple of years ago. One shut down this year, so it only leaves one. On the plus side, since I have my race license for CMRA, I can use the Friday practice day as a track day, if I don’t feel like racing.

This!! There is so much good about practice race days. Not sure about CMRA, but for CCS a practice day is a lot cheaper. Then, for those on lightweights and ultralights, you get grouped with bikes of your own kind. You're not on the track with a newb on a Panigale who guns it on the straight and parks it in the corners. And strangely, the level of professionalism and courtesy is higher than track days where it's pretty much The Thunderdome. Kinda weird considering one has passing rules and the other doesn't. And finally, I don't miss CR's who all too often act like the policemen of the racetrack.

Some people do the practice day, then just do the long GT race the next day and that's it. It's a long race that a lot of other racers often treat as another practice session since some don't come for the practice day. Then you wrap it up and hang out to spectate the other races and it makes for a fun weekend.