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There is an extensive thread on this site regarding the infamous 300 'clutch-in stall'.

The problem is that the thread is getting unwieldy. (If the moderators disagree, I guess they'll move this post.)

I'm posting this in the hope that we can start sharing data regarding what specific situations seem to result in stalls and to propose (if possible) solutions.

Here's my experience.

Previously I had only experienced the stall once - at low speed in a parking lot after a 45 minute break in a ride.

This last couple of week's the bike was unused. On Tuesday I needed to move the bike about two blocks. During the move it stalled 3 times.

Observation: I didn't fully gear-up (my bad) so I was riding very conservatively.

This morning I finally had time for a ride, but hoping that I could avoid the same problem, I gave the bike more warmup time and adjusted the idle up to about 1750.

No stalls.

While I think the warmup and idle might have helped, here's what I now think was the major difference.

Observation: My normal riding style is to 1) Almost never disengage the clutch without a throttle blip, and 2) When approaching a stop, I roll off the throttle with the clutch still engaged then begin down shifting (accompanied by blips).

Don't get me wrong, I still think this is a problem that Kawasaki needs to address. In fact I still encourage those having the problem to post a complaint here;

https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

(It takes about 5 minutes - have your VIN at hand.)

My hope for this thread is that as a group we collect enough objective data to assist in mitigating the problem.

Keep it safe!
 

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try as hard as i can on my bike to get it to do the stall fault & i never have had it do it yet.your riding style has nothing to do with it im convinced of it. your idle has nothing to do with it.i know mine is set at 1100 rpm has been since day dot. i wouldn’t be surprised if it is a combination of maladjusted clutch & the stock ecu programming
 

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Well here is what mine does.

I go to work at 530am it's 50 degrees out and no stalls.

I come home it's 85+ out and the bike will stall when I am rolling and pull in the clutch for a few miles.

I always let the bike warm up until the rpms drop on idle.
My bike has a powercommander, auto tune, and full exhaust. It did this even before these mods.
 

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I wonder if the stalling is region specific.

I have a hypothesis that the ECU is not properly configured for California riding where the range of temperature is pretty wide between early day, mid day, and night, and also to compensate for smog laws.

Perhaps it would be useful to get a poll going to figure out who has had their bike stalled and where they're located.
 

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I wonder if the stalling is region specific.

I have a hypothesis that the ECU is not properly configured for California riding where the range of temperature is pretty wide between early day, mid day, and night, and also to compensate for smog laws.

Perhaps it would be useful to get a poll going to figure out who has had their bike stalled and where they're located.
Or its because of all the gay laws cali has and the smog stuff is messing it up.
 

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I suggested that is was elevation specific months ago. I would be curious as to what it would look like if we dropped pins on a map.


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This is probably a stupid question but has anyone taken it to a dealer and had them look at the blackbox after a stall?
 

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This is probably a stupid question but has anyone taken it to a dealer and had them look at the blackbox after a stall?
where’s the fun in that? it makes much more sense to come up with all kinds of ideas/suggestions as to what it *MIGHT* be rather then take it up with the manufacturer:confused:
 

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The dealers by me won't even look at it. It's happened enough that they know it can't be fixed. They said kawasaki would come out with a fix and send out letters.
 

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I went to pikes peak on the bike and never stalled and I have also try very hard to get my bike to stall and have not been able to.
Hmm and I live at sea level. So that blows that out of the water. Maybe octane?


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Definitely not CA or altitude... Happened on my way home when I came to a stop about 5 miles from the dealer (5 miles on the odometer)...

Actually, I almost dumped the bike because of it... I had slowed and shifted into first gear, getting ready to make a right-hand turn at a stop light. Just as I pulled up, still rolling 2 or 3 MPH, light turned green, I popped the clutch out and hit the throttle to take off, and instead of accelerating, it was like hitting the back brakes...

If I were a new rider, I would have lost the bike right then and there... (Well, maybe I wouldn't have dumped the clutch and hit the gas to go.)
 

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I wonder if the stalling is region specific.

I have a hypothesis that the ECU is not properly configured for California riding where the range of temperature is pretty wide between early day, mid day, and night, and also to compensate for smog laws.

Perhaps it would be useful to get a poll going to figure out who has had their bike stalled and where they're located.
I'm at sea level.I don't have a stall problem but my bike does idle at 1500 once warmed up.maybe its the air/fuel mixture.I heard someone else mention that he thinks its temperature change.the manuel has a graph on what oils to use for different temperatures.could it possibly be that the oil is out of its standard temperature running range?
 

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I'm at sea level, almost every morning (not warming up the bike first) right after leaving my house I go downhill for 200m, the last couple meters before a stop street, I pull in the clutch until I stop. As soon as I stop the bike stalls.

This happens almost every morning at that spot only, it never stalls anywhere else.
Maybe the combo of not-so-warm engine and downhill stopping is the reason for mine.
 

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Definitely not CA or altitude... Happened on my way home when I came to a stop about 5 miles from the dealer (5 miles on the odometer)...

Actually, I almost dumped the bike because of it... I had slowed and shifted into first gear, getting ready to make a right-hand turn at a stop light. Just as I pulled up, still rolling 2 or 3 MPH, light turned green, I popped the clutch out and hit the throttle to take off, and instead of accelerating, it was like hitting the back brakes...

If I were a new rider, I would have lost the bike right then and there... (Well, maybe I wouldn't have dumped the clutch and hit the gas to go.)
Yeah, when you clutch and pop start a motorcycle when at slow speeds you don't want to do it in 1st or 2nd gear. The compression braking that'll result before you get the engine cranking enough to run will feel like you slammed on the brakes. When it finally cranks enough to get running, if you have the throttle pinned, it'll almost do a wheelie right after that. Usually if I have to get a good running crank start on my motorcycles, I usually do it in 3rd, sometimes 2nd.
 

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Time of Day: 0948
Location: So. Cal
Temp: 65F
Altitude: 55'
Barometer: 30.10 in
Humidity: 72%

Warm Up Time: 5 min 48 sec

So what I did was see at what RPMs would I have to run the bike up to before pulling the clutch in while moving to see when I'd get a stall.

RPMs and Reactions:

1.3k:Idle
2k: No stall
3k: No stall
4k: No stall
5k: No Stall, Needle went a tiny bit below idle for a few seconds.
6k: Stalled 7 out of 10. Times it didn't stall RPMs hovered 300 below idle and bike idles rough. Idle would not equalize itself until a little throttle given.

7k: Stalled.
8K: Stalled.
9K: Stalled.
10K: Stalled

By the time I got to the upper end of the RPM range I had already ridden for approximately 5 mins and the engine is probably at peak operational temps. The radiator fan was on intermittently by this time.

11K: Didn't stall.
12k: Didn't stall.

Lately I've REALLY been reducing my stalling and the things that have drastically changed in my techniques have been two primary things in this situation.

1. When I'm engine braking I am modulating the throttle while controlling the brakes. In second gear and especially 1st gear, if you just chop the throttle while engine braking, the bike jerks to slow down. The throttle control on this bike doesn't feel very linear. There is an "analog" part of the throttle where it is really ON and OFF. Since I like to keep everything smooth, I don't chop the throttle. The way this has helped me for the stalling issue, is that I'm not clutching out until almost at a complete stop and I'm not truly letting the throttle entirely off until about 4k RPMs or so. If it the first couple stops on my ride to get out of my neighborhood, it wont stall but will have the same issues as when I did it @6k RPMs. The idle will be noticeably lower than set with the engine running a bit rough. Like it's teetering on the edge of stalling. A quick blip of the throttle gets it back to proper idle level. Obviously it's not fixed.

2. Even though I'm in the break in period still, I have been riding it like I stole it for the most part. Multiple 2nd and 3rd gear red line runs followed by compression braking. This has really helped my situation personally because this warms up the motor FAST. My first few rides I didn't even know the bike stalls because After a couple red lines the engine was at peak temps and warmed up and I didn't have to worry about it.

For me the engine stalling seems to be when the engine is at the lower operating temp range. (oil case feels a little warm to the touch, radiator fan wont turn on.) Once I get to the middle and upper range of the standard operating temps (engine oil case is hot to the touch, radiator fan will turn on intermittently when stopped,) the stalling and RPMs dropped below idle stopped.

I've come to the conclusion that it's a sensor/ECU error. When you chop the throttle, the engine shuts off combustion and is supposed to restart just prior to reaching idle. The stock point prior to idle to turn combustion back on for my ECU is too low and on my bike is below idle causing the engine to immediately die. I'm thinking it's a sensor/ECU issue though because it goes away when the engine temps are in the mid to upper operational range which is a separate map and configuration ECU wise. It would also explain why some people have the stalling in the exact opposite situation. When the outside temps and engine temps are warm. It all seems to be a sensor/ECU malfunction or bug. We used to have the exact same issue with our ECUs on the helicopter due to some of the ECUs that we got had a software error. It wasn't able to communicate properly with some of the sensors' inputs. Most ECUs that I've worked with, if they get a false sensor input they'll ignore the input and either maintain what they were doing until the proper recognized signal is read or will go to a default action for that sensory input. I'm thinking our ECU does the first. When the fuel is cut out the combination of sensors that tell the ECU to start injecting fuel again are read as an error and the ECU just continues what it was doing (cutting fuel.)

If it is an ECU/sensor suite error with software, this will take a very long time to fix. Troubleshooting software glitches in conjunction with all the different inputs, is difficult. We don't know what sensor combinations is causing the error (if there is one.)

That's my input anyways. Sorry if it doesn't help anyone.
 

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Yeah, when you clutch and pop start a motorcycle when at slow speeds you don't want to do it in 1st or 2nd gear. The compression braking that'll result before you get the engine cranking enough to run will feel like you slammed on the brakes. When it finally cranks enough to get running, if you have the throttle pinned, it'll almost do a wheelie right after that. Usually if I have to get a good running crank start on my motorcycles, I usually do it in 3rd, sometimes 2nd.
I hadn't realized that the engine had stalled which is why I almost dumped the bike.

I did report to the NHTSA indicating minor injury from the twisted ankle.
 

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I think Freelancers post basically did a very nice job of isolating the issue, especially the portion about closing the throttle at different RPMs. I understand what is going on having experienced faulty BCD induced stalls over 20 years ago. I tried to explain this thoroughly in the other thread but my observations were quickly discounted as not relevant.

I think I know what is going on but I guess we can just wait and see what solution Kawasaki devises.

From Freelancers post it looks like a change in operational style will eliminate the problem. It may also be why Kawasaki recommends keeping the RPMs at lower levels to five everything a change ot develop a wear pattern that will promote longevity, but I am sure this post, based on thousands of hours of experience will also be discounted as irrelevant, but that will not make my bike shut off, which it has never done.

regards
Mech
 

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Its odd my wife 250 ninja stalled all the time tell we did a carb sync on it just like how he free has it listed. I know this bike don't have a carb but it is acting like it has one for some of you.
 

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I think Freelancers post basically did a very nice job of isolating the issue, especially the portion about closing the throttle at different RPMs. I understand what is going on having experienced faulty BCD induced stalls over 20 years ago. I tried to explain this thoroughly in the other thread but my observations were quickly discounted as not relevant.

I think I know what is going on but I guess we can just wait and see what solution Kawasaki devises.

From Freelancers post it looks like a change in operational style will eliminate the problem. It may also be why Kawasaki recommends keeping the RPMs at lower levels to five everything a change ot develop a wear pattern that will promote longevity, but I am sure this post, based on thousands of hours of experience will also be discounted as irrelevant, but that will not make my bike shut off, which it has never done.

regards
Mech
I haven't taken it in to the dealership to look at it because quite frankly, if it is a software error between the ECU and the sensors, a mechanic won't be able to find it or even know where to begin. Their equipment only picks up and tell if the sensors are operating correctly and ECU is operating correctly based on operation, but can't pick up whether there is a software error or interfacing error between the two. It needs to get looked at by a Kawasaki engineer with the full equipment suite they have in their troubleshooting labs to pinpoint the issue. Which by the way it sounds, they're already working on it. While keeping the RPMs @ 4k and below would definitely prevent the stalling problem, it doesn't solve it. It's still there, just doesn't manifest since you aren't putting it in the conditions that would cause the stall. Also don't believe it's a break in issue either. Most have this issue well past the break in and some even went through the torture of the 4k and under break in. The ECU in this bike is a very basic one and isn't adaptive. It will not auto-adjust to conditions over time like one in a car would. It's a very simple input-output machine and is HEAVILY reliant on it's maps and sensor suite. It also does not have the ability to alter or make inputs to it's own maps. This makes it highly susceptible to software errors and input errors. Seeing as how this is a VERY common problem with many motorcycles across all make and models, the common factor between all of them are FI and the very over simplified ECUs. The computers we have in these bikes are 70-80s tech and are similar problems that the first few FI cars had. I've now read it across the Ducati, Honda, Suzuki, Triumph, etc etc and all of their FI bikes have this issue.I agree with your post from the other thread. Will be interesting to see how Kawasaki attacks this one. Would be better to see ECU tech in bikes start to at least be in the same decade of technology level as your basic low end car.

This never was an issue really with carbs. If everything was tuned right with the jets, you would never have to worry about this. It's when we added the computer is when you start to really see this problem rear it's ugly head across the board. The sad thing is, in all those other forums of the different bikes that have had this issue, not a single one posted that a fix was ever found or offered. Most either ignored it eventually and accepted it as an "ism" of the bike or sold the bike for another one.
 
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