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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys, i found this very interesting website with many good points and help for motorist in general about speed fines and what to do and not to do if you get pulled over and don't think you were speeding at all. I've been hearing a lot this days about very ridiculous fines imposed by police like a guy fined yesterday while riding along the motorway in the logan area, he got a 146 AUD fine for stretching one leg while riding cause he was failing to keep both feet on the footpegs. This one is different from speeding by anyway it just points out what a cash cows we've become in Australia for some cops. Anyways is a little long article but worth reading and if u need more info just get into the website. Be safe.

"DONT PANIC"

Remember that when you are pulled over and booked for speeding, the incident is
Alleged… not proven!

The Following rules will ensure you do not make the mistake of answering the police’s
questions the wrong way. Remember that they are taping you as soon as the incident
occurs and your civil rights are being infringed by the very first question they ask you.
That inevitable question is “Why were you speeding?”

If you admit that you have been speeding or may have been speeding you have no chance
of defending yourself in court later on. Remember that you are not under arrest and your
only obligation is to hand over your license and registration.

Rule number one is your answer to the question, “Why were you speeding?”
“I would prefer not to answer that question and would like to look at the infringement notice privately at home ”

Rule number two is your answer to the Officer if he persists in repeating question one by
saying his equipment has shown that you were speeding.

“Remember that you do not know for certain that the equipment being used accurately measured your alleged speed. Instead of admitting to an offence that you might not be guilty of state that you dont believe that you were speeding or that you would prefer not to answer the question "

This should not be confused as a suggestion to lie to the police officer, but in any legal matter it would be unwise to make an admission of guilt to an offence that is only ALLEGED and not at that point in time PROVEN. The police officer will be recording your conversation as soon as the incident occurs which is why we suggest that you dont make any admission of guilt until you have reviewed the incident or spoken to us for advice.

In most cases, the policeman will show you your reading but do not comment on it or feel intimidated into making an admission of guilt. With any legal matter and in accordance with your civil rights you are innocent until proven guilty.

The next rule is perhaps the most important of all. Under the National Safety Committee
guidelines for the use and implementation of Police Speed detection devices, the police
are only supposed to be operating them in known “Black Spot” or high accident areas.
Innocently ask the question to the policeman, “Why are you operating this speed detection device in this area? Is it a known black spot or high accident risk area?”

If you follow the above rules you will stand a good chance of winning your case in court
should you wish to defend the infringement. The justice system is there for all of us, not
just the police and the most it will cost you in court is $65. If you win it costs you
nothing!

For further information and consultancy about how to defend yourself against and
dreaded Laser Gun (lidar), the mobile radar or the speed camera, call the man who has
beaten them all and helps motorists win their cases by exposing each speed equipment’s
inadequacies.

Remember that when you are pulled over and booked for speeding the incident is Alleged…. Not Proven!

The website is: speedingfineconsultants.com
 

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Fast Lane Ukraine
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No offence, but this is stupid. Any time you talk back to an officer or get smart with them, you'll likely walk away with numerous tickets (which you *may* beat...but unless you're some 16 yr old kid, you probably have a job. Taking time from work to fights tickets = lost wages or time doing other things = not worth it).

I was wrongly accused of using my phone (for calling) while driving a few years back before texting became illegal (I was using my phone as a navigation device back then) and after getting smart with the cop, I left with a phone ticket AND tinted windows ticket.

Just shut up and be polite, admit wrong doing, accept the ticket, and move along. You'll end up paying less in the end...or hell, you may even get out of the ticket. I've been let go with warnings because I pulled over before he even turned around. One cop thanked me for admitting my guilt by pulling over so quick and gave me a BS non-moving infraction ticket instead.
 

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I ran a red light in my cage, & so did the car behind me. Cop pulled us both over, went to other car 1st, then came to me & asked if I ran the red, I said yes sir! He said other guy claimed it was yellow & told me I could leave. :D. Be nice to the police, they are just people doing their job.
 

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I gotta agree with the "Don't argue" deal. Here in CA, I'm sure the police hear arguments ALL THE TIME about any kind of ticket they write because they're just doing their jobs. If you don't push your luck, then you won't have a reason to be pulled over, and if you do, just be polite and talk to the officer like he/she is a person, not a cop.


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This is funny.
in my town its a 'show no fear' type of deal.
 

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Fast Lane Ukraine
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If I was a cop, I'd be lenient on well mannered 'auto or bike enthusiasts' because I am one. But if some punk in a souped up ride or bike gave me lip, oh man...I would go to the full extent of the law and give that punk more than he can handle for being a richard head. I stopped you for a reason. Contrary to what people think...99% of the time, cops don't just pick on people. You were obviously doing something you deserved to be stopped for. Take it like a man instead of being an idiot about it.
 

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This is pretty solid advice around here. There are a lot of cases where people have been pined for things they legitimately haven't been doing and issued with a ticket. Normally with the line "tell it to the judge", this advice gives you the best chance of telling it to the judge.

Be polite, but never admit you are in the wrong.
 

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Be polite, but never admit you are in the wrong.
correct, but if your doing the wrong thing then have the balls to accept the ticket, if not, be polite and take it to court & talk to the Judge etc there
 

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The last time I was pulled over for speeding (was over 5 years ago, mind) I just kept repeating "Sorry, I'm not aware that I was speeding."

The cop ended up letting me go with a "warning" which I translated to "lack of evidence."

Anyway, I have heard whispers of Aussie cops becoming increasingly ticket-happy of late, a guy was ticketed in the Northern Territory a few weeks ago for going 61km in a 60 zone, and upon questioning the cop was told "revenue-raising" was the reason. The fine has since been retracted and a apology was issued.
 

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Yep stopped for speeding many times even had a chase my reply! No idea what speed I was doing - didn't even see you! This usually gets them pretty fired up but unless the get you correctly on radar there's nothing they can do! Now I drive for a living I need my license and haven't been pulled over in over 5 years.
 

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Here, if you use the "didn't see you" excuse, they will get you for failing to check your mirrors or something, there's always that vague, catch-all law they can use.

I've never gotten out of a ticket, but I've always been civil to the officers that have pinned me for speeding, quite frankly, I've always been speeding, and also quite frankly, every police officer I've been pulled over by has been nothing but professional in our dealings. This has been one Windsor Police Officer and two OPP officers (our version of the state trooper).

There was once I was pulled over for an expired license plate sticker and was given a warning. The last time I was pulled over for speeding, I was also given a warning for an expired sticker (that's what I'm really bad for) but it wasn't added to my speeding ticket.

My first ticket was for 46km/h over (keep in mind that 50 over is considered racing/stunting and results in a roadside license suspension, roadside vehicle seizure and up to a 50,000$ fine), the other two were for doing 21km/h over the limit. Here in Ontario, it's pretty rare to be pulled over for anything less than 20km/h over.
 

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There are two types of people, those who fight tickets and those who don't. If you don't, congratulations, life is easy but also random and expensive. When you get popped for a ticket, no matter how ridiculous or unusual or inconsistent, you pay it like another tax or you use your traffic school when you can (for relevant locations that have this). When you've used your traffic school, you get to pay higher insurance for 3 years (depending on laws in your state/country), even if it's a total B.S. ticket like going 75 on the freeway (where people go 75-80 every single day of your commuting life).

If you do fight tickets, congratulations. You will beat some but you will put forth some effort to that end. The upside is that you assert right to a fair trial and you will fear cops less, and the 'randomness' of tickets is something you will be equipped to handle. You will learn a lot. You will know how speed limits are actually set, and know how to work within the law to 'speed' in a way that's actually legal, assuming you like driving at a reasonable pace and not like a granny on Xanax. When you get that low-tolerance, B.S. ticket, you will know how to handle it. When you get a cop who's a total jerk for no reason and you want to know how to talk to him or her correctly and in a non-incriminating-way, you will know how to do this. You will not be some uninformed person trying his or case on the side of the road like an amateur. In fact, if you really know what you're doing, the cop will understand this and may be less willing to ticket you in the first place unless he/she is *really* sure it's a worthwhile ticket to write. One of the best things for a cop to assume is that you're a lawyer, judge or another cop, even if he/she cannot or will not ask you this question directly. The cop won't assume this if you handle traffic stops like a noob.

I am *very* nice to cops at a traffic stop. I don't reveal that I know what I know. I am friendly and cooperative. If the cop tries to get me to incriminate myself, I sidestep like a trained Ninja. The cop then makes a mental note that I am not some rube who will stick his foot in his mouth. Remember, the cop is a hostile witness, even though they're there to 'protect and serve'. I do like cops and I have a neighbor who is a cop, but I also know that they're paid to 'show work', and part of showing work is writing tickets. Those of you who don't fight tickets probably wouldn't know this, but this is why cops try to get you to incriminate yourself.

I spend much of my life just paying tickets, until the tickets got stupid or low-tolerance. Then, I started fighting them—and I have a very good story about the event that made me decide to fight tickets for the rest of my life. I will probably vlog that soon. ;)

I've fought 7 tickets and beat the first 6 in a row. I actually should have beat the 7th but got Kangaroo Kourted a bit, and I learned from it. I am not a lawyer, but I know how to fight tickets. This doesn't mean I speed everywhere, either. I've matured a lot in my 45 years and I save my speed for those areas where it counts (twisties, back-roads, etc.). Fighting tickets is a worthwhile effort for those so-inclined, and ironically, my knowledge keeps me driving slower where it does not pay to speed, and driving in my same spirited-fashion where enforcement is reduced. Basically, knowing how to fight tickets has *slowed me down*.

If you don't fight tickets, none of these tips are for you, so it's no skin off your nose. But, it's not fair to accuse anyone of lacking balls because they fight a ticket. Fighting a ticket is what takes balls, because anyone can pay a ticket. That's the easy thing to do and that's why only 10% of people fight their tickets. Can you walk into a courtroom in-session and ask the bailiff for an engineering and traffic survey for the stretch of road where you were ticketed? I've done it. Why? It's because I know it's my right and I have the intestinal-fortitude to exercise it. :D

Really, it comes down to what you value. Do you value knowledge, or engaging your rights as a civilian in the legal system? Do you value a moral victory? Do you value knowing that the cop who wrote you a ticket could be wrong, and being able to prove it? Do you value having renewed confidence when driving because you know that any time you get stopped for some silly ticket, that it won't necessarily stick if you know how to handle it? Are you tired of the seemingly-random nature of 'speeding' enforcement? Do you want to know how speed-laws and limits are *really* established, instead of being yet another uninformed civilian? Do you value beating a bad ticket and getting a check back from the city/state for the FULL bail amount (ticket charge)? Do you value keeping your insurance low and record clean without driving like granny stole a tractor or all the housewives around here turn more slowly than I could run around a corner?

Values differ. If you want to fight tickets, there are best-practices for this. If not, keep sweet, have your checkbook ready and hope for the best.
 

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Fast Lane Ukraine
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I agree with you and I guess I should further explain my position...I didn't mean not to fight them at all, just fight them where it matters (in court with the DA/Judge)...not on the side of the road where you are more likely to piss the cop off and get him to REALLY scrutinize your vehicle. The reason why I got that tint ticket in the story I mentioned is because I knew the law. When they first enacted phone laws in New York state, talking was illegal but texting/using it for other things was not (it now is - and in the initial press release they said that if they don't get the desired results from the secondary offense they would look into the issue further - I read it as...if we don't make enough money, we'll make it primary). Those were 'secondary' offenses, meaning you had to be stopped for speeding or some other moving violation first before they could tack that on. Since I wasn't, I told the cop that flat out and he told me he appreciated me knowing the law and that he'd be right back. 15 minutes later, he comes back with a tint meter...I assume after checking his little handy law book in the car. I could have gotten away with 1 ticket for $200 instead I got two tickets that I paid a total of $350 for.

I've fought tickets in court as well and won (either by having them dropped or lowered to something that wouldn't raise insurance, etc.)

Like you, I also know where and when I can and cannot speed. You get that intuition after you've been pulled over enough times...or if you run from the popo at the age of 16 and quadruple the speed limit (my case lol).

Many vehicle laws in this country are nothing more than revenue generators (I get really passionate about this topic lol). For example, tint. In FL you can tint pretty dark, but cop safety is whatever. In NY, God forbid you tint anything more than 70%...cop safety is ALWAYS the reason they mention. BS. It's a way to make money.
 

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I agree with you and I guess I should further explain my position...I didn't mean not to fight them at all, just fight them where it matters (in court with the DA/Judge)...not on the side of the road where you are more likely to piss the cop off and get him to REALLY scrutinize your vehicle. The reason why I got that tint ticket in the story I mentioned is because I knew the law. When they first enacted phone laws in New York state, talking was illegal but texting/using it for other things was not (it now is - and in the initial press release they said that if they don't get the desired results from the secondary offense they would look into the issue further - I read it as...if we don't make enough money, we'll make it primary). Those were 'secondary' offenses, meaning you had to be stopped for speeding or some other moving violation first before they could tack that on. Since I wasn't, I told the cop that flat out and he told me he appreciated me knowing the law and that he'd be right back. 15 minutes later, he comes back with a tint meter...I assume after checking his little handy law book in the car. I could have gotten away with 1 ticket for $200 instead I got two tickets that I paid a total of $350 for.

I've fought tickets in court as well and won (either by having them dropped or lowered to something that wouldn't raise insurance, etc.)

Like you, I also know where and when I can and cannot speed. You get that intuition after you've been pulled over enough times...or if you run from the popo at the age of 16 and quadruple the speed limit (my case lol).

Many vehicle laws in this country are nothing more than revenue generators (I get really passionate about this topic lol). For example, tint. In FL you can tint pretty dark, but cop safety is whatever. In NY, God forbid you tint anything more than 70%...cop safety is ALWAYS the reason they mention. BS. It's a way to make money.
As far as I understand it, what that cop did was illegal. He stopped you for a secondary violation, and then found a primary violation to nab you for the secondary. Did you fight that one? His initial stop has to be the reason he's citing you when it comes to traffic infractions. Granted, if he smells alcohol on your breath then this becomes probable cause to check your BAC, but writing you for tint after initially trying to stop you for the cell-phone violation is just an obvious dick move, and the order of the events would not sit well with judges the cop doesn't know personally (which is why you can move the case to the county seat in most places).

Once we know how to fight tickets, cops who abuse the system can be brought to justice and if all of this is revealed in court, they will get spoken-to by their Commanding Officers (COs). You can also file complaints against specific cops.

The reason some cops act like jerks is precisely because most people don't fight tickets, and they get away with the most egregious nonsense. Not saying you don't fight them because you've said you do, but most people don't.

And yes, never argue your case on the side of the road. That's a rookie-move and the cop will know that you're inexperienced if you do that, it will piss him/her off and as a hostile witness, they will use everything you say against you (if they want to).

For what it's worth, I only run legal tint. I try not to give cops any reasons to hassle me in the car. Way too much of a hassle and not worth it.

My exhaust on the bike, however....isn't exactly a DOT-approved item, but I'll take my chances there.
 

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For those who pay their tickets without a second thought, here's a story.

The very first ticket I ever decided to fight uncovered questionable practices by the city and cops in at least a few ways. I was stopped on a surface street with a sign that read 40 mph. The speed limit, being heavily-enforced by a gang of rookie cops was 5 mph too low, because of 'construction' cited in the engineering and traffic survey (E&T survey). They were pulling people over en-masse, ticketing them and I am sure most of them were paying hefty fines and of course, I was caught in their net. The rookie female cop, wearing a hoodie over her uniform (illegal), smirked at me as she held her LIDAR. Another rookie issued the ticket (hearsay). It was like a bunch of puppies out on a hunt, and they were making more than a few mistakes. The cop who stopped me actually ran into the street to flag me down. Yes, I used this bit of information against him.

That smirk created a ticket-fighting monster. I consulted with the NMA (National Motorists Association) and got some free legal advice. I read a few books, signed up for a few websites to learn the ins and outs of fighting tickets, and tackled my case via TBD (Trial By Written Declaration).

Turns out, there hadn't been construction on that road for about a year. I beat the ticket and the city raised it back to the proper limit after. Cashing a check (and interest-free loan to the city) never felt so good.

So yeah, what are the odds that my very first attempt to fight a ticket uncovered corruption to raise revenue?

Quite good, in fact.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
No offence, but this is stupid. Any time you talk back to an officer or get smart with them, you'll likely walk away with numerous tickets (which you *may* beat...but unless you're some 16 yr old kid, you probably have a job. Taking time from work to fights tickets = lost wages or time doing other things = not worth it).

I was wrongly accused of using my phone (for calling) while driving a few years back before texting became illegal (I was using my phone as a navigation device back then) and after getting smart with the cop, I left with a phone ticket AND tinted windows ticket.

Just shut up and be polite, admit wrong doing, accept the ticket, and move along. You'll end up paying less in the end...or hell, you may even get out of the ticket. I've been let go with warnings because I pulled over before he even turned around. One cop thanked me for admitting my guilt by pulling over so quick and gave me a BS non-moving infraction ticket instead.
Shut up and be polite??...cmon man if you have done nothing wrong why would you admit guilt?. That's exactly why the cops give you any kind of ridiculous ticket they want. Law works both ways and there is something called civil rights. Probably the extra money in bonuses cops are getting for issuing tickets is much higher here in Australia than USA, that's why they're more focussed on doing that nowadays than doing the job of serving and protecting that we the taxpayers pay them to do.
 

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Fast Lane Ukraine
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Nothing wrong? Or not doing anything 'bad' enough?

If you got stopped for 39 in a 40, then yes, DON'T shut up by all means, since you are under the legal speed LIMIT (keyword). But if you got nabbed doing 45 in a 40...how is the cop NOT in his jurisdiction to give you a ticket? You ARE breaking the law after all, whether it's fair or not. THAT is when you shut up, be polite, take the ticket, and fight it in court like a normal person instead of being a complete richard head and arguing your case on the side of the road like a n00b. 'You' here is general, I'm not talking about specifically josvet.

There is a difference.

Also Space, in Europe (at least in my home country of Ukraine), cops almost always stand on the side of the road and sometimes step into the road when doing traffic enforcement. They wand you down as a way to tell you to pull over.
 

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Also Space, in Europe (at least in my home country of Ukraine), cops almost always stand on the side of the road and sometimes step into the road when doing traffic enforcement. They wand you down as a way to tell you to pull over.
same here too
 
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