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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone,

I've tried to do some searching, but I haven't found anything that fits the description of the problem that I am having.

So I've got a new ninja 300, 2015 model non-ABS. Had it for about 1 and half month, done just past 4000kms

Now, once I was riding home on the highway, and all of a sudden the engine just cut off. The dash light and everything are still on, and the engine cut-off button wasn't pressed. After pulling onto the side, I tried to restart the bike, but nothing happens as I press the starter button. No electrical starting sound, no engine turn over. And I was in neutral and the kickstand was up.

After about 15minutes with the bike turned off (I was googling the problem). I turned on the bike again and pressed starter button, and the bike suddenly started, and the RPM started to soar, it went up to like 6000RPM and I pressed the engine cut-off button to stop it.

Now just a bit of background context. I have been fiddling with the idle rpm adjuster. Over the past week or so, I notice the idle RPM gradually dropping too low, like 900ish. So every time it does that, I would readjust it back to 1100RPM ish.

Anyway, so after turning off the bike, I loosened the RPM adjuster screw, and restarted the bike, I left the RPM at 1100. So that was problem solved for that day and I rode home. Now at the time I thought it was just the problem with the adjuster, I thought I may have over tightened it over the course of past few weeks.

Now, 1 week later (I didn't ride the bike for a week). I tried to start the bike to go on a ride. I press the starter, electrical sound comes up, but no engine turn over. I tried again, this time giving it throttle as I press the starter button. The engine turned over but stalls after i let go of throttle. So I repeated it again, this time holding onto the throttle after start, and at the same time tightened the RPM adjuster to bring up RPM. So after some adjusting, my RPM is back to 1100 and my bike was working again, so I rode off. During the course of riding, every time I stop at a light, I looked at my RPM. By the time I got home, my RPM was 900 again. So now I am really concerned.

Does anyone have any idea what is going on with my bike? Any input will be greatly appreciated. And on final note, every time I started, I made sure I was in neutral.

Sorry about the wall of text.

TL DR: having problem starting, and seem to be related to idle RPM adjuster.
 

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Check the battery for loose cable connections and only set the idle on the bike when it is at full operating temperature.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Also just to clarify. Other than the time when I was using the idle RPM adjuster to help with starting the bike. Every time when I was adjusting the Idle RPM my bike was at full operating temperature.

Cheers.
 

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If the bike still remains under a factory warranty you may also want a dealer to look at it before messing with it further.
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yea, when I get time in the next few weeks. I'd probably take it in.

In the mean time, can someone explain the exact mechanic on how the idle adjuster work. I've read that it changes the fuel air mixture. So does tightening it (increasing RPM) increase the fuel/air ratio? And vice versa?
 

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Changing the idle does not change the air/fuel-mixture (it does very little, but not in the way you might think or understand it).
The correct idle is 1300 rpm +/- 50 rpm, so with 1100 rpm it's complete misadjusted and maybe that's all of your problem.
If setting it correct doesn't help, I would recommend you not to do anything more but go to your Kwaki-Center and let them look for it.
Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
@Yoermane,

Can you explain how exactly that fuel adjuster works?

The first time I adjusted the idle was because I noticed it was idling too high, around 1900. That was during the first 1000km service. I adjusted it to 1300+/- 50rpm. But over time, it will always drop to 1100RPM. I did some research online, and even called mechanic. Apparently lots of people's ninja 300 idles a hairline above 1000RPM. So I just left it as 1100RPM as it is.

It was just over the christmas break, on the way back from a long trip, I noticed at the red light the RPM was at 900, so I readjusted it upwards again. Additional note, that day was really hot, 40deg celsius ish.

Cheers.
 

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With the adjuster you open or close the throttles more or less.
Everything else is done by the ECU and that's the reason why you can't do many without test-equipment and measurements if there's anything wrong.
There are some sensors and if only one's coming up with wrong information then 'your lost'.
One big problem in many such cases the O2-Sensor is very well known for, but there's just many more: dirty air-filter, spark-plugs ect., ect...
You can search here for the Service Manual and look in chapter 3-31 DFI-Troubleshooting.
With FI in case of problems nothing is as easy as the good old carbs...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
@Yoermane

Thanks for clearing that up.

So has anyone else had the experience of the engine suddenly just shutting off while riding? (the electronic dash and everything are still on) And then it won't start for a while, then when it does finally starts, idle RPM spikes like crazy (5000RPM give or take)?

On side note, I will go check my air filter tomorrow. Since this happened on my way back from a long ass road trip, around 1000kms. Might be clogged up from all the travelling on country road?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Hey guys,

I've just found a post that addressed a few of the problems I had: http://www.kawasakininja300.com/for...762-2014-abs-se-stalling-idle-adjustment.html

I adjusted my idle to about 1300rpms bcuz I notice the rpms drop at idle to about 1000 before the next time I pull clutch in and it stalls. It will hover bout 1100rpms. When I restart it at about 1200rpms. Then later drops. Its all sporadic so its hard to replicate.
This is exactly what happened to my bike. I would adjust it to 1300, then it would gradually over time drop to around 1100. Eventually I was cool with that and let it be, then the problem I mentioned above occurred. Over a few days it would slowly drop towards 900, and i would readjust it back to 1100 every time. (ALL OF THIS IS DONE WHEN ENGINE IS WARM) And then on the way back from the road trip.........

Im not stalling the bike it stalls on its own on clutch pull during deceleration. Its just like the 2013 recall. There was a recall for 2013 model ECUs.
Exactly same thing happened to me, the stalled happened during clutch in deceleration. However, I then had the problem of unable to start the bike, pressing the start button, no electrical sound, no engine roll over. Then 15 min later, it starts and RPM soars to 5000.

Anyway, from the post..... (i read all 6 pages) ... they seem to have found that it was unlikely an ECU problem since KawiFury replaced the ECU, and it didn't fix the problem.

closing remark from Kaustav
The issue came up right after the first service(at the dealer's workshop).

Basically, the problem was with the idle speed constantly dropping on its own. I would adjust it(engine warm) & it would stay fine for a couple of rides(approx. 160 kms. over 2 weekends), but while riding back home after the third ride(another 80 kms.) the idle would drop to the point that the engine would die/stall. Now what I found strange about this was the fact that the idle would drop gradually over time, so for example, after adjustment of idle (at approx.1400 rpm) & first ride the idle would drop by 100 or so rpms. At the end of the second ride it would drop further & this continued till the idle became too low.

The above(idle adjust/idle drop/ idle adjust) continued for atleast 3 complete cycles. It was almost as if the idle adjuster was moving on its own, to confirm this was not the case I attached a small piece of tape(as a marker) to the adjuster so that I can see if it moves on its own or not. It was NOT moving.

At this point of time I thought maybe there is some problem at the airfilter due to over oiling, so I opened the airfilter box & found absolutely nothing wrong so put everything back together again. Amazingly, the problem just disappeared after this- the idle never dropped again!

I donot know what happened, the only thing I can think of was that the airbox cover(the black one, after the side panel) screws were loosely fastened, but I fail to understand why or how this would impact the idle.

Anyways, the bike has been fine ever since(almost 2 months now).

So if anybody has the same problem, my inputs would be- 1. It is NOT an ECU problem. 2. The above worked for me.

Thanks for reading.

Regards,
Kaustav
So in conclusion: cause of problem still not pin pointed. There is a possible solution to checking the air filter. So I will try that and observe my idle RPM over some trips and see if it still drops gradually.

I have only experienced this decel stall once so far. If it occurs again I will let you guys know.
 

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I'll throw out a couple of suggestions for ya based on the little bit of information we got. Possibly bad gas. Poor/old gas can cause the bike to sputter and rev high. Second possibility if you haven't done your first service interval, you might need your valves checked for clearance. If the valves are too tight it will cause your bike to die or not idle correctly. Unless the air intake was modded or changed somehow i doubt the air filter would be the problem but that's just my $.02
 

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Your problem seems similar to what I faced, but I did not have the starter motor or over-rev problems. The starter motor not turning over is a bit strange. Try checking the air-filter, it might help. Good luck.

Regards,
Kaustav
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I've checked the air filter. There's some dust, grass and insect body parts on it. other than that, it doesn't look too messy. correct me if I am wrong.

Also I have noticed how the filter cover screws r a bit lose like Kaustav said. Tightened those.

I'm going for a ride now, i'll keep an eye out on the idle RPM and let you guys know. Cheers
 

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@cli37 you're welcome.
But let me give a 'thank you' to you also to come up with post #10, since it seems that with the ECU-Recall from Kwaki not everything might be fixed like it should.
And to make it better to understand, that looks just like with the newer ER6 in Germany (the older ones don't have that problem), many remapped ECU's (the dealer send them to Japan where the remap is done and after 6 weeks they come back) but the problem's at the end are a little bit better only but not completly gone.
Many rider with the ER6 fixed it with disabling the O2-Sensor or complete unmounted it.
But if anyone wants to do the same, please keep in mind that there must be a resistor or O2-Eliminator instead to keep the FI-Light not coming up.
The fuel-mapping from idle to 4000 rpm is very lean and maybe it's just too lean, but I would not recommend anybody to change anything in that range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hey guys,

I got back from the ride and I've got a gut feeling that my idle RPM gradually dropping problem might be simpler than we thought. I think it might be because my idle screw is gradually backing out during riding. Here's the reason why:

with the idle adjuster screw, as you turn it clockwise, it turns up throttle and RPM, and the screw physically gets tighter. Vice versa lower RPM, screw is looser, and bit more wobbly too. So after warming up my bike, I adjusted my RPM, and what I noticed was, at RPM lower than 1600, it would always gradually drop down back to 1000. But once i tune it above 1600, it stays at where it is, and the thing is, that is also the point where I can physically feel more tightness in the screw. I didn't have a marker, or a tape to confirm this theory today, so I will do that next ride. Unfortunately, it will be pouring for the next 2 day, (im from melbourne). So I probably won't get back to you guys with result till then.

I still don't know what cause the difficult start problem, but i guess 1 thing at a time, or even fingers crossed it never happens again. If it turns out that this idling problem really is caused by something so basic.... im gonna be pretty relieved... and annoyed at this design issue, lol.

But let me know if you guys have any other theory based on my description. Cheers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Hey guys. went for a long ride today. after adjusting the rpm, i taped the adjuster screw down using masking tape. the rpm has been constant at 1350 for the entire ride. So i guess it is the adjustor screw sliding out due to vibration.

I havent had another stall yet, so havent diagonsed that problem any further. So i guess this sort of semi-concludes this problem.

thank you all for your input, it has been immensely helpful.

cheers
 

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I'd still say you may have an ECU/O2 sensor issue as your story about restarting the bike and the RPMs jumped up to 6k until you lowered it back down again is kind of indicative of that. The O2 sensor feeds the ECU the required info for the ECU to automatically make corrections to the fueling. It sounded like each time you were adjusting the idle up, the ECU was correcting for it after running for a while and your idle dropped to compensate for it. Eventually the ECU corrected itself to a dead engine and the engine died. When you restarted it later on, the ECU may have reset itself due to an error and that's where you got the 6k+ RPMs on startup because you had been screwing the hell out of the idle adjuster for weeks on end. Usually pulling the sensor out of the exhaust and giving it a good cleaning fixes the issue. Many people just get annoyed with it and use an eliminator to remove it altogether and forgo the automatic mapping function or get a PCV and a PC O2 sensor which is considered a much better sensor.

Instead of taping the idle adjuster screw, you should have marked it first to really make sure it's not backing out. Also, the screw backing out doesn't explain why you had that surge of RPMs after the ECU wouldn't start the bike for a bit. Although this also assumed the Australian market bikes get O2 sensors as not all markets get them. My CA 2013 didn't have an O2 sensor but the Euro and Asian market bikes did. I don't remember if the Canadian bikes did or didn't.
 

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Even though my bike never had any rpm surge or starting issue, your post has got me thinking. I will check with the service centre just in case(it still has warranty).

Regards,
Kaustav
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
@FreelancerMG Thanks, you have a good point. Like Kaustav, I still have my warranty as well, I'll get them to check it out also. In terms the idle screw backing out, that has been confirmed. Like you suggested, I marked the position on the screw, and it visibly backs out after 10min ride or so.

Cheers
 

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hello
I would take it out & put some thread lock on it I use loctite 243 its blue in colour as you can then take it out again if needed if you use the permanent type you may never be able to adjust it again. plus I would match mark the screw e.g. put a mark on one edge of the screw & the body it screws in to then you know if it has moved just give it time to set before starting your engine..... or if it's under warranty then take it to the dealers & ask them to do it for you for free


I wish the best of British to you dear boy ......it's a bit cold in poor old England at the moment
 
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