Kawasaki Ninja 300 Forums banner
1 - 20 of 25 Posts

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The title says it all, I have a 98 Ninja 250 with a now blown engine, and I managed to pick up a 2014 Ninja 300, complete with the FI, engine/bike wiring harness, ECM, and all other pieces.

So can you guess where this is going now. I've done the research, and have the information as far as just using the engine, swapping my carbs, flywheel, stator, and fitting the engine.

But I'm wanting to keep all the modern things, like the F.I. set up.

So any help would be appreciated.

A little bit about me, I'm a member of EX500.COM, and NINJETTE.ORG for many, many years, and a very active member, along with other forums as well.

In my stable now 91 ex500, 07 ex500r, 98 Ninja 250f, and a 84 Honda Goldwing Aspencade
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
I guess the biggest question is, why not keep the '14 300 and/or fix it? Unless the 250 has sentimental value?

Sounds like you have done the research, and if you think its worth the time/money to fit the motor and all its parts, then more power to you. Have you removed or installed an engine before? Even on the bike the motor is made for, wrestling an engine in can be a handful. I posted a top end rebuild on my 300 on here, in which I talked about the whole process, including removal/installation, in case you need any guidance with that.

In my opinion, I just don't see the "value" in the end result. I've seen my buddy try and fix up a blown 250, and it was a nightmare at every step. All the time and money, and it still didn't run, and it was a dirt cheap buy, it was just wasted money in the end. We sold it before it ever ran.

All that said, if your heart is set on a 300 motor in a '98 250f frame, and that is what you're dreaming of, by all means, go ahead and share the progress here! It is definitely possible, and if you have all the tools, and maybe even a machining guy or tools, certainly you can do it. Just know that most of the parts from the 300 just won't quite fit exactly right in the 250, even down to the engine wiring and ECU, and fuel system.

What else were you thinking about this project? Any more ideas, reasons why you want to do it, ect?

-Mike
 

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My bad I didn't put the word "engine" cause that what I meant to type.

I just got the engine, wiring harness, ECU, etc..

Here is a few pictures of what I got
115557


115558


115560



115559


115561


115562


115563


115564


115565


115566


Yes, I'm very experienced working on bikes, and all. So no worries there, good call.

I've had the 250 for about 7 years now, and put about 30k miles more on the clock, it has 27k miles. It wasn't treated well before I got it, so I re-did everything to get it up to standards.

Then about a couple of weeks ago I was riding it, and started to hearing a rod knock, good thing I was close to home. It had the proper amount of oil, no warning light, engine temperature normal, just cruising at about 60 mph.

So then I started looking for a replacement engine, and just so happened across this one, and knowing the engines were similar, I decided to go ahead with project.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rogue and SparkyMJ

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Sounds like you had your mind set on this project before posting, haha. Well right on, looks like you've got everything you need to start. Good thing you got the dash, those are super expensive and an important part in a motor swap. Might look a lil funny on the 250 dash though lol.

You sure the 250 motor is toast? I guess knocking means damage is already done, but I'd at least crack the motor open. Maybe a new rod or wrist pin could have it fixed. Maybe the oil pump got messed up...

Orrrr you could just get the 300 power and FI lol. Are you going to rebuild or open up the 300 motor, or is it going straight in as is? Looks like a California model motor if I am not mistaken.

Looks like a good spring project. Keep us posted!
-Mike
 

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah I'm sure enough the motor is toast, and I've been messing with ex500, and ex250 for a long time to know it's not worth it to rebuild them. I've always refered to them as a BIC lighter.

I was looking for just another ex250 engine, and found the Ninja 300 one, and it was about the same price as I was going to pay for the ex250 engine, so I figured why not go with it. I gain another 50cc, fuel injection, and the slipper clutch. No plans to crack it open, it's supposed to be a 2017 with about 7k miles.

I'm curious, how can you tell is a CA motor? I picked it up in MO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
But I'm not seeing the purge can. Does anyone know if there were non-CA (EVAP) models that did have the O2 sensor?
I'm curious now...
 

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I thought because it's fuel injection, it has to have an O2 sensor, for the f/a ratio, etc
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
That's what I was saying, my non-CA bike has no O2 sensor. I think the N300 is Euro 4 regs, and does not require a O2 sensor in the exhaust IIRC. I think the N300 without O2 sensor just has a fuel map and just adjusts the mixture based on the air conditions and "guesses" the right mixture. Lol. Mine runs great.

-Mike
 

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Maybe, below is parts list for the US non-CA version.

115567


115568


As you can see it's got a O2 sensor, which might be the reason for the confusion, being they sell worldwide, and makes changes accordingly.
 

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
As you can see it's got a O2 sensor, which might be the reason for the confusion, being they sell worldwide, and makes changes accordingly.
Man that is so strange. I haven't looked recently, but in the motor rebuild and stuff, I swear I never had an O2 sensor to connect to anything. Put the motor in the bike, bolted on the exhaust, and it was good. Maybe I'm going crazy though lol. I'll check it again soon just for curiosity...

-Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
412 Posts
The maintenance manual continually notes "Oxygen Sensor (If Equipped)" so there are certainly variants with and without O2 sensors. I am 99% certain mine has no O2 sensor.
The manual also notes the EVAP can as "(CAL Model)" so it's possible that the O2 sensors are on more than just the CAL models.
An engine can run just fine without an O2 sensor, even if it's FI and even if it's originally equipped with an O2 sensor. It just means the ECU uses pre-calculated tables rather than a feedback loop to determine fuelling. It will be less efficient, as there is no constant fine-tuning of the mix and the fuelling tables are often biased rich vs lean (more problems running lean vs rich). The tables use inputs from a variety of other sensors to "guess" at a proper mix rather than measure and adjust. To note, the way fuelling is determined withthe feedback loop is to start with the table value and adjust (trim) the fuel delivery based on the O2 sensor. Without the feedback, there is no "trim", just the table value.
This table is what gets modified with an ECU Flash.
A Power Commander (or equivalent) tweaks the "trim".
A Booster Plug tricks the inlet temperature to think the air is colder so the ECU adds more fuel (different cell in the table).
My VW Wagen has been running with a disconnected O2 sensor for a few years now, still works fine. I'm probably gumming up the cat, but due to other issues the O2 sensor feedback was causing the trim to lock full rich, which would have been even worse to keep running.

TLDR: O2 sensors are not required to make FI work, but they are used to make FI work better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
188 Posts
Ah, I had mistakenly thought the non-CA models were the bikes with no O2 sensor. You are definitely right about running with no O2 sensor, it's just not peak perfect fueling.

I think you are right about running slightly rich without the O2 sensor feedback, and it makes me wonder if it makes my bike run better. IIRC, most people put on fueling flashes or tunes makes the motor run richer anyway. But I say that because I have really good pull against most other 300s. I am geared up to 14/40, and I get the same acceleration against my buddy's R3s and other Ninja 300s. I beat my buddy's R3 down the straight at the track every time yesterday, and even just messing around on the freeway, their bikes geared stock I still match or beat them straight line. With my motor with almost 50,000 miles on it. And a significantly stretched cam chain that probably retards my valves a good amount too!

Sorry for the tangent. Just wonder if my fueling is different in some significant way from most others. I still have white-ish spark plugs, indicating a generally lean burn though. I want to do an ECU flash if I can justify the cost.

-Mike
 

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
115570
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rogue and SparkyMJ

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
So after doing a lot of research, it seems pretty much straight forward.I need to grind away a small amount of the front engine mount, and fuel pump.


After looking at the possibility of mounting the OEM FI intank set-up, I was going to cut up the bottom of a 300 tank, then weld it into the bottom of an 07 250 tank, but the frame backbone of the 250 wouldn't allow this, it doesn't seem like there's room.

So for now in going external pump, regulator, and filter, which is a different problem of fitment.

115580


stay tuned......
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rogue

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Been busy finishing up another big project, now I can start on this one

Hooked up a battery while it's still on the cart, just to see if it would


A small shot of starting fluid, it sputtered to life, kinda. All looks good, the only thing is I was told it only had about 7k miles, but as you can see it's pretty much double that.

So the first thing was to install the PAIR valve elimination kit from Smartmoto. A nice complete kit, with stainless steel hardware too, looks nice and clean.

115606


115607


115609



So I'm about to start this project, got a few things to work out, but I can start by removing everything from the Ninja 250, engine and the complete wiring harness, etc...
 
  • Like
Reactions: MAL

·
Registered
84 Goldwing Aspencade, 91 EX500, 98 Ninja 250/17 300 engine swap, 07 EX500
Joined
·
42 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
I finished up my other two motorcycle projects, so it's time to start on this.

115617


115619


Step one remove all the stuff I don't need anymore. I did look at the oil when I drained it, and there was A LOT of metal in it, so it's most definitely dead to me.

Remove all the fairings, engine, wiring harness, etc.. easy enough to do on these bikes.

115621


115622


So as I said earlier, from what I've read I'll need to grind the upper front mount on the engine, so it can fit the mount. but it turns out I don't have to.

I counted on Kawasaki being lazy, and they were. I got the upper mount off a Ninja 300, and it bolts right in, you just need to use the old bolts that go through the frame. But I'm gonna drill out the old frame so I can use Ninja bolts, as they are 10mm instead of the 8mm old bolts. I'll let you know how the goes.

115625


115626


This makes the engine at least a true bolt in job, no grinding, etc ..

Now at this point I could have swapped out the 250 flywheel, stator cover, rejet carbs, and be going down the road. But I have a complete 300 Ninja 300, with everything.

My next thing to figure out is the fuel pump.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MAL
1 - 20 of 25 Posts
Top