[SparkyMJ]

FWIW, I am inclined to believe the clearance between valves and pistons in this engine is quite spacious - all things considered.

For example, my cam chain is stretched enough that when I set my timing I have to count the links exclusively, because the timing marks are so retarded they don't like up with the valve cover mating surface anymore. And I had (and still have) no signs of valve to piston contact. So honestly if I was you I'd probably have gone the last 2 thou down on the head.

I also found what you did setting the camshaft timing. Yes it kinda binds, but I just follow the book and it works out every time. It does feel a bit bad crushing down those cast aluminum caps, but it works and doesn't damage them any real amount. I put a good big dose of assembly lube on them when they go on. Keep in mind engines with more cylinders require that valves are opened when you install big long camshaft caps, it's just part of the assembly. Doesn't make it feel less bad though when you are taking a ratchet to the cap bolts though. I do multiple rounds of torqueing the cap bolts. By hand with no wrench (just a socket and extension), very lightly with a wrench, until the bolts bottom out, then torque to spec. But that's just how I do it.

Did you hone the cylinders before measuring the bore? I didn't even bother to measure mine, but also mine never overheated, so I just ran with it and was unwilling to buy a new cylinder regardless, and it worked out in my case. I lapped my cylinder and head with a glass plane, and also didn't even bother to measure the clearances - and it all worked out perfectly. I was thinking, I wonder if there was a thicker head gasket should you lap down your head too far, but you probably don't need it.

Looking like great progress.

-Mike

 

[motopreserve]

@Frank I’ll have to check it out. Is the oil pressure bypass a known issue? I’ve never cone across anything about that.

@jjmaine I’m still not sure about this issue. My confusion is compounded when you take a look at the first photo in the post above, it shows the closer (cyl #1) exhaust cam lobe to be in roughly the 7 o’clock position. That is clearly advanced enough to start its pressure on the lifter.

In the end, it wasn’t a big deal. Advancing the crankshaft around to a point that removed the pressure worked (IIRC, advancing to roughly 8 o’clock is enough). Except for that nagging feeling in the back of your mind that you’ve veered off the shop manual path, and the engine might eat itself

 

[motopreserve]

@SparkyMJ I didn’t hone the cylinders before reassembly…this FIRST time .

I hadn’t removed the piston and jugs since the top of the jug didn’t show any warpage. Oddly, the exposed areas of the cylinder walls looked good compared to the rest of the engine. I measured the top of the cylinder, and then just rotated the pistons and stuck the gauge in as low as I could get it with the piston still installed for the second reading. Since they mic’d ok, I decided to move on. Not best practice, but I was in a rush, and overly optimistic. Oh, foolish man!

In hindsight, I agree that I could have probably taken off the additional .002” and not had an issue. But that would have brought the total material removal to aprox. .004” in some areas, and that one thread had me paranoid.

I also torqued the caps like you did. Hand tight evenly based on the prescribed order. Then I used a torque wrench set to about 1/2 the final spec. Than the final torque. Seemed to work out ok. I just had to advance back around and check, counting the chain links etc. even though I’m still using the stock tensioner, with the correct link count my marks were a hair off. But not by much.

 

[Turbo20]

I just did this job last year, if had a nice budget i would have went to town on Spears parts lol. I followed the manual to a T and the same issue with the cam but did the same as jjmaine mentioned and so far no issues with about 1500 hard km since the head gasket replacement

 

[motopreserve]

I just did this job last year, if had a nice budget i would have went to town on Spears parts lol. I followed the manual to a T and the same issue with the cam but did the same as jjmaine mentioned and so far no issues with about 1500 hard km since the head gasket replacement

Glad to hear it’s been working out. I just had my grandfathers voice in my head, “if you have to force it, something’s wrong!” Of course I tune that voice out any time I pick up a mallet

 

[Turbo20]

Glad to hear it’s been working out. I just had my grandfathers voice in my head, “if you have to force it, something’s wrong!” Of course I tune that voice out any time I pick up a mallet

ya there were a few things i did that were questionable but i just slapped everything back together and went on a cannonball run if anything i felt like the bike had a bit more power.

 

[jjmaine]

I wonder if it was getting hung up on one of the dowels? Kind of a pain to make sure they seated correctly at first since it has to go on at an angle. I guess it doesn't matter now but just weird yours gave you such a problem. Thinking about it though, if you got it bolted on without breaking it I bet it'll be good as gold.

I sweat that stuff bigtime with engine internals, I'll go to sleep thinking "Man I hope I did that correctly" lol. If its on the outside of the bike you can always fix it without too much hassle. If something goes awry in the engine, best case is you have hours of work to take it all back apart and fix it. Worse case your engine grenades.

I think the timing marks are usually off by a little (the exhaust cam mark sits just a hair above the cylinder head if I recall) depending on how much your cam chain has worn. I know mine was not perfect either... I had a hell of a time adjusting my valves the first time. I can't wait til I have to do it again, it'll be easy now that I know what I'm doing. I'm used to the old screw type tappets. Never done the shim/bucket type before...

 

[motopreserve]

The thing is, there is no angle, no pressure, no problem at all of you advance to a spot where none of the lobes are touching the lifters. It goes on smooth as silk.

Makes me think the techs who wrote the manual were drinking a bit too much at lunch that day…

Once together, it checks out perfect. So I wasn’t too worried. But yes, it can nag at the back of your brain right before you hit go!

I would have killed for an old-school screw/lock nut tappet adjuster for this bike. I’m used to that too. The other bike I’m building right now has them. It’s a joy.

 

[jjmaine]

Yeah good point, I think the only reason they want you on tdc is to lessen the chance that the flywheel will spin when you undo everything. I know some longer cams in cars and such there is no way to get pressure off every cam lobe so they put the cam caps on like we have to. It seems to work for them if done carefully and with our tiny cams theres no real worry about bending it, just cracking the cam cap.

Love the old school kind too, so easy…. They say bucket and shim is better because it requires less adjustment but Id rather have to do it twice as often lol🤣

 

[SparkyMJ]

Love the old school kind too, so easy…. They say bucket and shim is better because it requires less adjustment but Id rather have to do it twice as often lol🤣

I just did my first screw-type valves the other day on a generator, and it was pretty cool not needing to purchase parts to adjust the clearance lol.

I've said it once and I'll say it again, my valves stopped getting out of adjustment once I did the manual CCT...

And yeah we're not working on thumpers, there is no ideal position the camshaft can sit with no lifter contact. First time I did the valves on my GSX-R I was also afraid of cracking the camshaft caps with all 4 sets of lifters pressing somewhere on some lobes, but just follow the book and have a steady hand, they thought of this when writing those books.

Funny we talk about this though, I bet there is like, a specific number of times you could 'install camshafts and caps' before invoking some damage to lobes or lifters. Even if it's 100 times, they assume in the manual that you would never do 100 valve adjustments or engine rebuilds before the bike is trashed, but I bet they figured it out.

On engine assembly note, what assembly lube do you guys like? I have never tried the manual-specified moly/oil mix, but I am tempted to buy some of the factory specified moly stuff and give it a go. I've been using Maxima Assembly Lube, it's thick red oil that smells like peppermint lol. Haven't had any issues but it's kinda hard to verify if the dry start up is causing issues ever. I use it generously too.

-Mike

 

[jjmaine]

I just use the Lucas assembly lube from Autozone and I think it may have some moly in it. I bet the Maxima is good stuff too. I like how Maxima products all have their own scents, even their ester blend motor oil smells like banana lol. I love that SC1 (new bike in a can) and it smells like cherries. I’d bet any brand will work good as long as it’s thick and sticky enough to hang around until you get oil pressure the first start.

 

[motopreserve]

I used the Lucas this time too. Although I’ve had some expensive shit in the past. Not sure it made any difference.

There is a position on the kawi that allows for replacing the cap without pressure. If you were advancing the crank to the point shown in the manual - just stop a bit before, say 8 o’clock instead of 7 o’clock. Obviously you guys have done it successfully with the pressure. So I’m sure it would be fine. Just feels weird.

 

[Turbo20]

The manual CCT is next on my list. I ended up using the permatex ultra slick assembly lube but i generally like redline products just couldnt find any locally. Forgot to mention while i had the engine out i was able to install Spears solid engine mounts, the feed back is pretty good and really the only vibrations i feel is in the seat. Its a decent mod if you already have the motor out

 

[motopreserve]

The manual CCT is next on my list. I ended up using the permatex ultra slick assembly lube but i generally like redline products just couldnt find any locally. Forgot to mention while i had the engine out i was able to install Spears solid engine mounts, the feed back is pretty good and really the only vibrations i feel is in the seat. Its a decent mod if you already have the motor out

I’ve read several of @SparkyMJ posts about the manual CCT, and it’s something that I will be doing in the future for sure.

I also saw the spears solid mounts, and figure it’s something I could fab on the lathe. Just need to get measurements next time I have the engine out.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[jjmaine]

I have been thinking about the manual cct after reading sparkys posts too. I just hate the initial setup in them because I never know if I get them right lol.
Can the cct be changed with the fairings on? If not I might as well install one now before I put my bike back together but I was planning on waiting a while.

 

[motopreserve]

I’m not sure about the stock fairings. But I would definitely need to remove my race fairings. Seems like a solid upgrade based on all of sparky’s comments.

 

[jjmaine]

I suppose I could hold my fairing up to it and find out, im just too lazy and Im at work.

 

[Turbo20]

Looks like your able to do it with the fairing on might just have to maneuver around the clutch cable

 

[jjmaine]

Thanks! Yeah it looks doable, and really it isn't too hard to pop the fairing off if needed. Just so you know, APE sells ccts for our bikes but they are listed for the 2008+ 250r. The 250r and 300 use the exact same cct so no worries on fitment. I know spears is out of stock on camchain tensioners so thought I would mention it.

 

[jjmaine]

There is a position on the kawi that allows for replacing the cap without pressure. If you were advancing the crank to the point shown in the manual - just stop a bit before, say 8 o’clock instead of 7 o’clock. Obviously you guys have done it successfully with the pressure. So I’m sure it would be fine. Just feels weird.

I learned rebuilding the engine on my last bike that if you see an easier way to do something you don’t always need to follow the manual to a T. Like the “You better not drop the cam chain down the cam tunnel” so we all try to wiggle the cylinder over the piston while snaking the cam chain up through at the same time trying not to bump the base gasket lol. Now I just let the cam chain plummet down to the bottom, put the cylinder on and the fish it back out with a magnet.

Sometimes there is just an easier way to do things.