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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So just ran at Autobahn in IL, wasnt very fast because the high for the day was like 55. I am absolutely destroying my brakes on the track and dont know what to do to keep the heat down. I noticed last year I was overheating the brakes so I swapped to EBC HH Sintered, didn't realy like the feel of them as they felt very coarse and no matter how much I warmed them up they never felt smooth but they did have bite.

So after 4 sessions I noticed the brakes were making a low frequency but very loud grunt once under 30 mph, could really feel it in the brake lever and made the front end vibrate but nothing near a pulsation. Got the bike home and rode it to work thinking some normal braking would smooth it out but nothing changed. Took the brakes apart a little bit ago and I actually warped the backing plate of the outboard pad.... never seen this in my life as a automotive tech. It was not binding in any way, it would have bent the other way if that was the case. And it did not only warp long ways but also is twisted. There was no abnormal wear at the pins or the large slide that the "C" on the pad wraps around, when removing the pads and pistons slid in smoothly.

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The rotor itself has pad material smeared all over it and is near cracking between the vent holes
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So anyone else find a way to make mostly stock brakes work at the track? if not what are you using? I dont mind upgrading rotor and pads if something works well, not really looking for a conversion caliper and such from another bike though.
 

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Well I gotta say Vesrah VD 250 RJL pads with an EBC MD4166xc rotor worked super well at NCM last weekend. With Galfer SST lines, not sure if that would qualify as mostly stock but they do the job with the stock caliper. EBC Base model HH are known to be pretty poor. Extreme Pro would probably not fade or warp. Vesrah RJL's is what all the supersport lightweight class racers use on SV650's so you know it's a battle tested option.
 

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A guy in my group has used an R6 floating disc. straight swap onto the front. standard calipers, braided lines, not sure what he did with pads. will find out
 

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I've been working with a guy in California (Spears Enterprises). He sells a nice little kit with a floating rotor, pads, and braided brake line for a pretty good price. EBC rotor, EBC pads, and I think he makes the line himself. Friday will be the first chance I have to use it so I'll report back. I can't see there being much wrong with it. If the pads don't work well I'll switch them out with Vesrah pads. I've used Vesrah in the past on bigger bikes and they are phenomenal.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
How do the Vesrah pads feel on the street at low temp? My wife takes the bike to work as well and want a close to stock feel. Zaph, anyway you could take a pic of your front rotor? would like to see how it looks after your race. And does it rattle at all at low speed?
 

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Sure, I can take a pic when I get home. I don't get any rattling from these EBC rotors because they aren't true full floating. They are partial floating with spring loaded washers under the rivets which are generally noise free. True full floating rattle like hell by design and many rotor manufacturers don't sell those because average Joe Consumer doesn't like brake noise.

The RJL 250 would probably make a decent street pad as well as a race pad. They heat up reasonably fast but yet they don't fade and have a moderate initial bite.



True race pads like the SRJL-XX work like shit until they heat up. (not available for our calipers anyway)
 

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Of course you're going to see melting of a single caliper setup on a single disc if you're keeping speeds above 80 mph and braking hard constantly. The thermal load you're putting on the braking system as a whole is huge and that's a lot of energy to turn into heat. With only a single caliper and pad, your ENTIRE thermal load is on just that one set of pads. It's no wonder that you're going to melt a pad and warp a few rotors in the process. This is why bikes designed to constant high speed deceleration have multiple rotors and multiple caliper pots per rotor to spread out that energy across a much larger surface area. This shows that you're either exceeding the speed capabilities of the bike or are pushing it too hard too late constantly loading up the heat in a very short period of time and doing it repeatedly. We've had people in the past do caliper and master cylinder swaps and you can always go with an upgraded aftermarket rotor setup as well. I think we even had a guy who did an entire ZX6r front end swap to get the USD forks and dual rotor/caliper setup.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Not that I don't appreciate your post, but I know that I am overloading the brakes. Just trying to get the opinion of multiple track riders to see what they have found to work well without swapping out 1/4 of another bike to fix it. I am most definitely pushing too hard too late but it is to go faster on a small bike, a budget bike. Looking to get a decent brake setup that can handle 15 minutes on the track without imploding, for around $200. Surprisingly the rotor has not warped yet but I think running this hard again is going to cause it to crack, I don't have a lot of experience with motorcycle brakes but I would assume cracking a rotor would have a really high chance of immediate lockup.

Picking up a set of stock pads for the ABS model tomorrow until I get a better rotor. I am not too concerned with the actual bite of the pads as long as they dont fade, I only use one finger on the brake but even with the stock pads I am braking hard enough for the rear to slide on down shifts. The only time I had brake fade was with the stock non-ABS pads, I would almost rather have fade though instead of the pads actually bending lol.
 

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he is using brembo brake pads

ok rotor is not a straight up fit.. i thought it was as he never said it needed modifying when he first posted.. Sorry!

It doesn't matter what rotor you use. As long as it has the same stud pattern which most rotors do. Just gotta drill them out to correct bolt size hole and machine the diameter to fit the caliper. So machine to 290mm which is the stock rotor size.



 

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Not that I don't appreciate your post, but I know that I am overloading the brakes. Just trying to get the opinion of multiple track riders to see what they have found to work well without swapping out 1/4 of another bike to fix it. I am most definitely pushing too hard too late but it is to go faster on a small bike, a budget bike. Looking to get a decent brake setup that can handle 15 minutes on the track without imploding, for around $200. Surprisingly the rotor has not warped yet but I think running this hard again is going to cause it to crack, I don't have a lot of experience with motorcycle brakes but I would assume cracking a rotor would have a really high chance of immediate lockup.

Picking up a set of stock pads for the ABS model tomorrow until I get a better rotor. I am not too concerned with the actual bite of the pads as long as they dont fade, I only use one finger on the brake but even with the stock pads I am braking hard enough for the rear to slide on down shifts. The only time I had brake fade was with the stock non-ABS pads, I would almost rather have fade though instead of the pads actually bending lol.
It's not really something though you may be able to just throw money at and correct using the single caliper setup with such a small relative surface area in reference to the pads. You may also not be able to really use data from other racers of the 300 because their riding style may be different than yours. They may be, for example, braking slightly sooner and spreading the thermal load out over an extra half second and aiming more towards a corner entry speed that allows them to accelerate sooner off of maintenance throttle. Watching a lot of the ultra-lightweight guys do their laps, they tend to brake a little sooner with a lot less initial force and over a slightly longer period but still resulted in a higher overall corner entry speed with the ability to maybe get on the gas sooner due to not having to contend with so much dynamic forces happening over short periods of time. I saw them as tending to be more smooth on the transitions into the turn and carrying a bit more speed into the corner and starting to accelerate a bit sooner.

You may be trying to ride the ninja like a bigger bike with aggressive corner entry and hard, late braking to setup for WOT as soon as possible. This tends to result in a slightly lower overall speed as you wont be able to get onto the gas as quickly due to the other forces contending for your traction due to all of the dynamic actions going on. Your line and cornering technique is going to be a lot different than the super sports and super bikes you're on the track with.
 

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The rotor itself has pad material smeared all over it and is near cracking between the vent holes
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lol that's what happened to me too.

Take off your rotor and place it on a flat surface, I can almost guarantee you that your rotor is warped and won't sit flat on the surface.

Needless to say, I had to replace my rotor.
 

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BEET makes a big brake kit.


310mm big brake kit (stock caliper)


310mm big brake kit (Brembo caliper)


Brembo caliper kit (stock rotor)


Brembo rear caliper kit
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ordered the EBC rotor last night for monday and just went with the ABS model pads for now, I threw my old stock pads in while waiting for parts and love the feel of them so hope to get about the same feel with less rotor destruction after install on monday. Thanks for the help.
 

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I think the metalurgy of the OEM rotor is just garbage. Probably fine for putting around town but not much else.

I like that R6 rotor option. It wouldn't be too expensive to have a machine shop mill down the outside diameter.
 

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Reading through this whole thread is making me want to convert to a floating rotor set up. Sorry, I'm being very lazy: Is there a DIY here on that? Would I run into any mechanical issues since I have ABS?
 

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So I just got back from a test with my new EBC brake set up from Spears Enterprises. Initially I'm pretty impressed with it. Sooooo much better than stock. I should know more this weekend at a different track. While I am happy with it from the first test, there really aren't any high speed hard extended braking zones.
I would like to try the Vesrah pads to see the difference because I've had great experience with them in the past but I don't see a reason to switch right now.
 
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