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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, all. This post is about a problem my friend is having with his 2014 Ninja 300. It is a track bike, so all issues occur on the track; not the street.

So, on Friday it was fine. Halfway through the day on Saturday the problem started occurring.

He will be riding the bike, and it will just lose power, completely. It doesn't bog down and then stall or anything like that; it shuts completely off, out of the blue. He'll be on the gas down a straight, apexing a corner, etc. and the engine will completely cut out. But, the cluster will stay on, and without having to toggle the kill switch to off and run, he can hit the start button to fire it back up.

It doesn't have a hard time cranking or firing up, it runs 93 octane, the charging system tests healthily...

Being a track bike, it has had an ignition delete (keyless), has a quickshifter (we disconnected it and the problem persists), and has the kickstand removed. There is no power commander or anything like that.

It did recent have an an engine swap and an ECU swap though. But it has been ridden a couple of times since then and never done this before.

Any ideas?
 

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The only time my bike cut off the way you describe it, it was a bad wire on the fuel pump. It had been chewed by a mouse. If the wire has a false contact, it may make the pump work on and off. It's kind of easy to take a look.

May it be a clogged fuel tank ventilation?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The only time my bike cut off the way you describe it, it was a bad wire on the fuel pump. It had been chewed by a mouse. If the wire has a false contact, it may make the pump work on and off. It's kind of easy to take a look.

May it be a clogged fuel tank ventilation?
Would that cause it to just literally DIE? It's honestly like a light switch being turned off... The bike is running, he's on the gas, and the whole engine just shuts off in a split second. No lugging, no chugging or sputtering... Poof, gone.
 

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Mine did it only once. I lost the session, solved the problem in the pits and came back to riding.
I remember it didn't give me much chance to do anything. Maybe it wasn't instantly, but almost. There was no sputtering or anything like that. I was full throttle in a long straight. Just ran out of fuel and turned off.

I know what you mean by sputtering. My carbureted DRZ has a small tank, so I hit the res once in a while. That bike warns me more before running out of gas. At least it gives me the chance to pull over if I'm in traffic.

You don't need to pull the tank out of the bike. Remove the side fairings, the seat and the two bolts that hold the tank in place. Then you can lift the tank and hold it with a piece of wood or something and you can check the condition of the fuel pump wires. You can also turn the ignition or start the bike and check the voltage with a multimeter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Mine did it only once. I lost the session, solved the problem in the pits and came back to riding.
I remember it didn't give me much chance to do anything. Maybe it wasn't instantly, but almost. There was no sputtering or anything like that. I was full throttle in a long straight. Just ran out of fuel and turned off.

I know what you mean by sputtering. My carbureted DRZ has a small tank, so I hit the res once in a while. That bike warns me more before running out of gas. At least it gives me the chance to pull over if I'm in traffic.

You don't need to pull the tank out of the bike. Remove the side fairings, the seat and the two bolts that hold the tank in place. Then you can lift the tank and hold it with a piece of wood or something and you can check the condition of the fuel pump wires. You can also turn the ignition or start the bike and check the voltage with a multimeter.
I can have him look into that. Any ideas what else it could possibly be?
 

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^^ Be patient. @jvk45 gives the best diagnostics. :)

Have you checked the battery terminals? A false contact there may do it.
Also, it doesn't hurt to check the condition of the battery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
^^ Be patient. @jvk45 gives the best diagnostics. :)

Have you checked the battery terminals? A false contact there may do it.
Also, it doesn't hurt to check the condition of the battery.
Okay, lol. I can be patient. 👍

I'll have him check the terminals. The battery itself should be fine, as it was replaced in spring. The charging system seems to be okay as well. He tested the voltage at the battery with the bike off, and then again with the bike running and they were perfect.
 

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^^ Be patient. @jvk45 gives the best diagnostics. :)
Have you checked the battery terminals? A false contact there may do it.
Also, it doesn't hurt to check the condition of the battery.
Ha! Thanks Topaz, but I'm coming up a little dry on this one.

There are some odd symptoms, like starting back up immediately.

I like your idea about the battery and the contacts/connections. Batteries can do odd things, and even a new battery can go bad unexpectedly. The voltage may drop off to the point where it won't run the injectors, but will light the dash.

I would try another known good battery, just to check that off the list.

It would seem to be an electrical issue, so check wiring. Because he removed the ignition switch, I would look at the connections there. There is a resistor in the original system that may have been removed. An aftermarket ignition doesn't have it, and that causes problems until one is fitted.

Also check wiring on any of the safety switches that were removed or had jumpers installed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ha! Thanks Topaz, but I'm coming up a little dry on this one.

There are some odd symptoms, like starting back up immediately.

I like your idea about the battery and the contacts/connections. Batteries can do odd things, and even a new battery can go bad unexpectedly. The voltage may drop off to the point where it won't run the injectors, but will light the dash.

I would try another known good battery, just to check that off the list.

It would seem to be an electrical issue, so check wiring. Because he removed the ignition switch, I would look at the connections there. There is a resistor in the original system that may have been removed. An aftermarket ignition doesn't have it, and that causes problems until one is fitted.

Also check wiring on any of the safety switches that were removed or had jumpers installed.
Okay, I'll recommend that he try a different battery, or install a volt meter on the cluster.

It's worth mentioning that he got the bike as it is, with the ignition deleted, quickshifter installed, side stand removed, etc. He did recently have a new used engine and ECU installed after it blew though. It began mixing fluids and a water pump didn't fix it, so at that point he swapped to a new used engine he bought, then also used his old plugs and coils. He needed a different ECU because the old one had been tuned for the other engine that ran on 100 octane.

But I'll have him check the wiring for the side stand and what not.
 

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Hi, I got invited by jkv45 to take look at this. My background's in EFI systems; tuning and upgrades going back to '90s with shoppe specialising in Porsche Turbos. I've been racing Ninja250 since 2017. I suspect this sudden cut-out is electronic, perhaps exacerbated by twin's high vibration levels. Maybe something like loose wire/connector. Here are some things to look at:

1. pull DTC codes. When back to pits, pull ECU codes. Use both Dealer Mode 1 and Dealer Mode 2 to get all possible codes.

2. Water-proof Joints - there are EIGHT common ground-points where bundles of wires are joined together. They're really not that water-proof as they use bare brass connectors that can corrode over time. Find all eight of these points and solder all wires together.

3. relays - ECU and fuel-pump relays seems more reliable than ones on my Honda, but still may be problematic. Tap them with screwdriver to see if they cut out.

4. tip-over sensor. How was this bypassed? If it's wire pushed into connector, I recommend permanent bypass with wires soldered together and covered with heatshrink tubing. Same thing with clutch switch and sidestand switch. Make bypass sure thing so you can remove from list of possible issues. If it can be done better, do it to highest specs possible.

5. crank & cam-sensors - measure impedance according to manual. Verify waveforms at ECU connnector at idle and 3000rpms. Wiggle connectors and wiring in between to look for dropouts.

6. heat-test of all above - many sensors test perfectly OK at room-temperature, but may act up at higher-temps. Warm up bike and hit various switches, wiring-joints and sensors with hair-dryer to heat up to around 200F and see if anything cuts out.

I'll see if there's anything else possibly perhaps. Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi, I got invited by jkv45 to take look at this. My background's in EFI systems; tuning and upgrades going back to '90s with shoppe specialising in Porsche Turbos. I've been racing Ninja250 since 2017. I suspect this sudden cut-out is electronic, perhaps exacerbated by twin's high vibration levels. Maybe something like loose wire/connector. Here are some things to look at:

1. pull DTC codes. When back to pits, pull ECU codes. Use both Dealer Mode 1 and Dealer Mode 2 to get all possible codes.

2. Water-proof Joints - there are EIGHT common ground-points where bundles of wires are joined together. They're really not that water-proof as they use bare brass connectors that can corrode over time. Find all eight of these points and solder all wires together.

3. relays - ECU and fuel-pump relays seems more reliable than ones on my Honda, but still may be problematic. Tap them with screwdriver to see if they cut out.

4. tip-over sensor. How was this bypassed? If it's wire pushed into connector, I recommend permanent bypass with wires soldered together and covered with heatshrink tubing. Same thing with clutch switch and sidestand switch. Make bypass sure thing so you can remove from list of possible issues. If it can be done better, do it to highest specs possible.

5. crank & cam-sensors - measure impedance according to manual. Verify waveforms at ECU connnector at idle and 3000rpms. Wiggle connectors and wiring in between to look for dropouts.

6. heat-test of all above - many sensors test perfectly OK at room-temperature, but may act up at higher-temps. Warm up bike and hit various switches, wiring-joints and sensors with hair-dryer to heat up to around 200F and see if anything cuts out.

I'll see if there's anything else possibly perhaps. Good luck!
I will relay all of this to my friend. Some of the things, I have no answer to, such as how the sensors were bypassed, as they were all done to the bike before he bought it. But he can check pretty easily.
 

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Hi, I got invited by jkv45 to take look at this. My background's in EFI systems; tuning and upgrades going back to '90s with shoppe specialising in Porsche Turbos. I've been racing Ninja250 since 2017. I suspect this sudden cut-out is electronic, perhaps exacerbated by twin's high vibration levels. Maybe something like loose wire/connector. Here are some things to look at:

1. pull DTC codes. When back to pits, pull ECU codes. Use both Dealer Mode 1 and Dealer Mode 2 to get all possible codes.

2. Water-proof Joints - there are EIGHT common ground-points where bundles of wires are joined together. They're really not that water-proof as they use bare brass connectors that can corrode over time. Find all eight of these points and solder all wires together.

3. relays - ECU and fuel-pump relays seems more reliable than ones on my Honda, but still may be problematic. Tap them with screwdriver to see if they cut out.

4. tip-over sensor. How was this bypassed? If it's wire pushed into connector, I recommend permanent bypass with wires soldered together and covered with heatshrink tubing. Same thing with clutch switch and sidestand switch. Make bypass sure thing so you can remove from list of possible issues. If it can be done better, do it to highest specs possible.

5. crank & cam-sensors - measure impedance according to manual. Verify waveforms at ECU connnector at idle and 3000rpms. Wiggle connectors and wiring in between to look for dropouts.

6. heat-test of all above - many sensors test perfectly OK at room-temperature, but may act up at higher-temps. Warm up bike and hit various switches, wiring-joints and sensors with hair-dryer to heat up to around 200F and see if anything cuts out.

I'll see if there's anything else possibly perhaps. Good luck!
Thanks for stopping by and jumping in Danno!

Hopefully he can locate the problem, as it presents a danger on the track.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for stopping by and jumping in Danno!

Hopefully he can locate the problem, as it presents a danger on the track.
It definitely does, not just for my friend (it cut out in a corner and he almost ate it), but also for anyone coming up behind him, not expecting his bike to stop accelerating so suddenly.
 
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