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Radical engine mod

326K views 1K replies 139 participants last post by  Yolo 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
Hi guys. I have been a member here for about a year when I bought my brand new Ninja 300 which I only bought as a test mule. I ran it for 700 Kms and ripped the engine out to make a major modification to showcase something I have been working on for over two decades, on and off. I picked the Ninja as it is so well developed already that if I could beat such a clever engine with my idea, it would highlight how good this thing I have worked on really is. Well, tomorrow I get the casting back for a brand new cylinder head for the Ninja 300 designed from scratch and cast in Brisbane Australia so I am on the last few months of machining and bolting together the most advanced cylinder head available and it is all designed to fit your favorite pocket rocket ninja. What is so radical, you may ask. Well, I ditched the camshafts and valves. I made a rotary valve cylinder head that has put almost 20 years of research on show. The only other modification is a Power Commandeer 5 (with fuel module) and new pistons. What I want to know from you guys is, before I take it to the industry, do I let the cat out of the bag and let you boys play with it too. Do I put a kit of parts together and make it available for you nutters to play with. Be warned though, it will be very powerful for a little 300cc lightweight, but exactly how much I will know late this year when I fire it up and test it. Want to know more, go to the website enginedevelopmentsaustralia.com and let me know what you think. All it is, is that after all this time of working on it, I am now looking at what to do with it after I have finished the trials. A petrol engine that pulls serious torque, can run 15:1 compression on pump gas and is lighter, smaller and with no valve bounce limits, less parasitic losses and more power due to more airflow, what could possibly go wrong.
 
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#2 ·
Wow that is exciting news and I wish you best of luck with finishing your product. I think after testing and showcasing the final product and results, many would jump on this if you provided a kit with very details instructions to install.

I look forward to seeing your test results.
 
#3 ·
Omg YES make it available to us. I would much rather give you money and do mad scientist experiments with my little ninja than buy a 600 in a few months. Please please please dooooo it!
 
#4 ·
A petrol engine that pulls serious torque, can run 15:1 compression on pump gas and is lighter, smaller and with no valve bounce limits, less parasitic losses and more power due to more airflow, what could possibly go wrong.
Not sure how you can run pump gas on a 15:1 compression. Wouldn't you need to get the octane to about 108? You can only advance the timing so much. It would be great for track/racing. I figure the die hard racers will mod their own engines...just saying...good look with your venture!
 
#15 · (Edited)
No, you couldn't just put rotary pistons into a normal engine, it's a completely different design (most famously used in the Mazda rx-7). He's talking about rotary valves (which is what he typed, imagine that...). It's a different way of opening the valves to let air/fuel into the combustion chambers (and exhaust gases out) that doesn't utilize conventional camshafts like most engines do. Sounds pretty exciting abd I hope he shares more with us. Op, don't mind the haters, we are excited to hear whatever news you have and I'm looking forward to seeing you succeed in your endeavors.
 
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#16 · (Edited)
This is not new. The Rotary engine was developed by Felix Wankel and made it's way to motorcycle engines in 1974 by Suzuki's RE5. The rotary engine was not fuel efficient due to uncombustible gas escaping which caused the exhaust pipe to get really hot. They recently perfected the gas leak. I'm not sure if they fixed the torque issues compared to their piston counterpart. In recent years they reintroduce this in racing...not sure how they stacked with the pistons. Unless the OP has made significant design changes, this design has already been patented.

http://rotarypowercrew.com/category/motorcycle-engines/

http://www.crightonracing.com
 
#17 ·
This is not new. The Rotary engine was developed by Felix Wankel and made it's way to motorcycle engines in 1974 by Suzuki's RE5. The rotary engine was not fuel efficient due to uncombustible gas escaping which caused the exhaust pipe to get really hot. They recently perfected the gas leak. I'm not sure if they fixed the torque issues compared to their piston counterpart. In recent years they reintroduce this in racing...not sure how they stacked with the pistons. Unless the OP has made significant design changes, this design has already been patented.

http://rotarypowercrew.com/category/motorcycle-engines/

http://www.crightonracing.com

Just like other members already pointed out, the OP is not reinventing the rotary engine- he is rather talking about a new engine head that contains rotary valves as opposed to your typical valves actuated by a crankshaft.
 
#22 · (Edited)
It's a valve system that removes the need and limitations of the spring as well as cams and camshafts. I see gears at one end though so it does still must use a timing chain though and the timing can be altered by the size of the gears and chain. Interesting design but while the new valve and head may be able to take a very high compression ratio, I'm not too sure about the rest of the engine. Packing that much pressure and energy can cause a whole host of other things to fail in the engine. You'd end up with pretty much a brand new engine when you're done catching the rest of the engine and transmission up to the head unit. Definitely interested though.

Wow. There are a lot of small companies with different versions of the rotary valve engine head.

http://www.coatesengine.com/csrv-system.html

History of the rotary valve
History of the Rotary Valve

http://www.rotarysystems.com/?gclid=CPi_tdXF98ACFWho7AodllEANg

It's interesting to see though a small enough application for motorcycle engines though. The ones I've found have been a bit on the large side with no intent to shrink them down to size to fit a motor sport application.
 
#23 · (Edited)
#25 ·
Well as another poster said though, I'd be rather surprised to see much gain in performance when combined with a stock engine as the current engine doesn't seem to have any limitations based on it's valves and head unit. The upgraded valves though would go a long way though to ensure the valves aren't what will hold the engine back when the compression is upped. Although, you'd still have to reinforce and rebuild the rest of the engine to handle that amount of increased energy. Not to mention one of the greatest hallmarks of a small bike, it's gas mileage, would take a complete dump from upping it's compression by such a drastic amount. That's a lot more fuel and air being forced into the chamber, so it's going to burn through fuel a lot faster. But then again, this is to be expected when forcing more work out of a smaller engine. It's efficiency curve drops drastically as it's being forced to do more and more work which pulls from it's fuel efficiency. This is why sometimes a larger displacement engine can actually have better fuel efficiency during certain activities. Such as higher speed cruising and accelerating.

I for one, am very interested to see this mated to a properly tuned and setup block and lowers. Would definitely kill the need for a turbo.
 
#26 ·
Guys.

thanks for the positive feedback. No, I don't post much, I'm either designing this engine, building it or earning money to pay for it, so don't get much spare time. On the question on why I can run 15:1 compression, allow me to bore you with technical details. The reason why you have to ignite the ignition as advanced as you do is because the poppet valves run very hot in a conventional engine as they are bombarded by hot gas and are stuck there. As such, they get hot enough to ignite your fuel for you before you actually want to. Case in point, if you improve the water cooling of a head around the exhaust valve seat and fit sodium cooled valves, you can retard the ignition a little. With a rotary valve, it continually moves, taking the hot spot with it, meaning the problem has gone. I have actually ran 17.25:1 before. Historically, most rotary valves have required no more than 5-10 degrees of advance at maximum. So, no we do not need to increase the octane rating as the source of the pre-ignition has been engineered out. As has valve bounce, it will rev to as high as we can get it to hold together, but after ducking one con-rod some years ago, we won't get too greedy on that one. Well, an update, I got the head casting back yesterday which was CNC machined wrong due to a MasterCAM error machining through the water jacket but we are back on track again and making the rotors, seals, other components and I would hope that this Christmas will see me riding around Queensland, Australia with the worlds most advanced 4-stroke engine and on to the Dyno. There is a website, all the w's, enginedevelopmentsaustralia.com and you can message me directly there if you want to know stuff quicker but I gotta keep working so you Mad people can go and play with it. For the record, I have a triumph Dayton 955i and my partner has a Honda VFR800 but I still love the little Ninja even with only 39bhp but to see what it goes like on 65+ will be a hoot but the torque will be more of an interest. I also want to increase milage by 30% but that is all a trade off. But, being able to do the same as you guys would with bigger cams and valves by adjusting two nuts in a few minutes for an infinitely adjustable state of tune and later making it able to adjust on the fly will make Honda's VTEC seem old hat,,,, I hope. Thanks for the encouragement. I have been trying to get this to the present professional finished state for some years now and the impetus for this final stage comes from your enthusiasm. Cheers guys,,, and girls.
 
#28 ·
Oh, on the question of Patents, if you care to put the words Rotary valve and my name followed by the word patent into google, you will find out quite how long and seriously I have been doing this. I have not put two decades of work into this and to discuss it with like minded people to be insulted. I am happy to discuss technical, and yes there are people out there who have sold snake oil but I am on this forum because I like good technical debate, not insults based on conjecture. I get it though, you've all seen stuff like this before and I won't do my new patent until I know exactly what I am patenting. Besides, the next phase will involve getting funding for these patents which can only happen when I have proven the reliability of the whole project, so, chicken and egg syndrome there but that is what rich people with limited grasp of engineering want to see. So, please bring your questions. Oh, one last point, the prototype is only starting at 12:1 and then I will start going up until the trade off looses gains. Lets see what happens shall we?
 
#30 ·
Sorry to sound uneducated, but if I could figure out this Forum and post a picture, I would show you a CAD image of the head and maybe a pre-machined picture of a casting but I am finding this site a little difficult to navigate. I don't normally do this Forum stuff as I'm just an engineer and though I am pretty good with computers for design work, these kind of sites do give me trouble. As soon as I figure out how to post a picture, I will. By the way, I am in Brisbane, Australia.
 
#31 ·
I use an external image hosting site called tinypic.com

Just go to that site, click "upload" and click the "browse" button to find the picture file onyour computer that you want to post. Choose "message boards" size in the drop down menu below the browse button and upload the picture. Then copy the text that appears in the "image code for message boards" box and paste the text into a post on this thread. When you post it will show the picture in the correct size in this thread.

PS I don't know the rules about intellectual property with regards to image hosting so you might want to be careful what you post.
 
#33 · (Edited)
It's ok to be skeptical. An engineer who really is doing something extraordinary should understand and expect skepticism, and be able to prove his/her concept. ;) Conversely, some of the greatest minds succeeded in spite of skepticism or downright naysayers, though a skeptic isn't a naysayer, per se. Even the idea of powered-flight had detractors. I think the difference is that a skeptic responds to evidence. So, if Kingsley is on to something here, the skeptics would easily be supporters once they understand what's going on.

Anyhoot, I am hopeful and Kingsley sounds legit, even though I have no engineering training to test his claims even on a theoretical level. Looks like Freelancer has done some of the homework there though.

Kingsley, it would be nice if you used more line breaks! All your text is mashed together and it makes it a little tricky to read it. Anyhoot, I'm selling my bike but otherwise I'd be happy to test and publicize your kit on my YouTube channel, and you'd get a decent amount of exposure there. In fact, I would delay selling my bike if we could work something out. Lemme know either way if you'd like and if I don't hear from ya, well the bike sale remains pending.
 
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#34 ·
Excuse me for being skeptical, but, if hot exhaust valves are what keeps four stroke engines from having 15:1 compression ratios, what is stopping two stroke engines, which do not have valves in the head, from using such high compression ratios?
 
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