What’s The Difference Between Rake And Trail? - Kawasaki Ninja 300 Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 10:55 AM Thread Starter
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What’s The Difference Between Rake And Trail?



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Dear MOby,

So is it the rake or the trail that determines how fast or slow a bike steers? Lot of things I read and hear seem to use the two interchangeably at random? Which is it?

Heavy Handed
Read more about What’s The Difference Between Rake And Trail? at Motorcycle.com.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-28-2017, 11:27 PM
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So you don't have to go for the click bait:

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Well, the two numbers are so closely related it almost doesn’t matter. Rake, or caster, refers to the angle from vertical at which the steering head is positioned, generally anywhere from 20 to 45 degrees – really sporty bikes being closer to 20 and custom choppers being more like 45. But the main purpose of that rake angle is to achieve the trail that the designer is after, because it’s trail, really, that determines how quickly, and with how much effort, the motorcycle will bend into a turn. A steep rake angle will almost always be accompanied by a trail figure on the short side.



Motorcycle guru and all-around genius Tony Foale conducted some experiments back in the day, circa 1982-83, which have now found their way onto his website. Basically he modified a BMW R75/5 so he could try various rake angles, and found that changing rake from the standard 27 degrees, to 15, then to 0 degrees, really didn’t hurt the BMW’s handling at all; in fact it improved it, as long as trail remained around the standard 3.5 inches or so.

What decreasing rake did affect, and not in a good way, was braking, which suddenly became juddery – but Foale postulated that was more to do with the BMW’s flexy fork tubes than with the modified geometry. You can read the whole thing at the site linked above, under “Experiments with Steering Geometry.” Basically, his experiments prove it’s trail that really determines a bike’s steering characteristics.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ichbinbier View Post
So you don't have to go for the click bait:
It's not click bait. Motorcycle.com owns this forum along with countless others, that's why, when you use a web browser, you'll see Motorcycle.com at the bottom of every page. Their generosity is what allows users to have free accounts.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 05:55 AM
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But they do make $ off advertising
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 10:22 AM
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I thought it was thanks to the generosity of the advertisers who pay Motorcycle.com to bother hosting this site. Silly me.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Rogue View Post
It's not click bait. Motorcycle.com owns this forum along with countless others, that's why, when you use a web browser, you'll see Motorcycle.com at the bottom of every page. Their generosity is what allows users to have free accounts.
It is still click bait. Why won't they post the article here? Because they get more clicks to try to get a higher price for advertising on their other site.

One would think if you own the site then you would post your articles on your site to make it a better site.

And from wiki "Clickbait is a pejorative term for web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines or eye-catching thumbnail pictures to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks."
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by ichbinbier View Post
It is still click bait. Why won't they post the article here? Because they get more clicks to try to get a higher price for advertising on their other site.

One would think if you own the site then you would post your articles on your site to make it a better site.

And from wiki "Clickbait is a pejorative term for web content that is aimed at generating online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines or eye-catching thumbnail pictures to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks."
Are you missing the part where motorcycle.com owns both sites?

Why post the exact same article on multiple sites that they own? It makes more sense to post a generic motorcycle article on the generic motorcycle site, and then link to it on bike specific sites. Nothing wrong with them using one of the properties they own to drive traffic to another they own.

And since the OP links to exactly what it says it will, its not clickbait. Clickbait is misleading a reader in order to drive click thru.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by SaskRider View Post
Are you missing the part where motorcycle.com owns both sites?

Why post the exact same article on multiple sites that they own? It makes more sense to post a generic motorcycle article on the generic motorcycle site, and then link to it on bike specific sites. Nothing wrong with them using one of the properties they own to drive traffic to another they own.

And since the OP links to exactly what it says it will, its not clickbait. Clickbait is misleading a reader in order to drive click thru.
Are you missing the point where clickbait is used to generate online advertising revenue, especially at the expense of quality or accuracy, relying on sensationalist headlines or eye-catching thumbnail pictures to attract click-throughs and to encourage forwarding of the material over online social networks?

Having to click to go to another site to see the answer is clickbait plain and simple.
If they own both sites then why not put the article here? Why? Because the clickbait brings in more money for advertising.
How?
They can show how many people view the post here then how many click throughs (clickbait) to read the article on the other site. Using these numbers they now can set advertising rates for both sites. The more who use the clickbait, the higher they can raise the rates.

If it took me ten seconds to cut and paste an article so people didn't have to go for the clickbait then why can't they just post the full article here?
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-14-2017, 07:37 PM
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Calm down, children

I'd call it Clickbait Light. Yes they could post it here, and no this website is not a charity. I just checked the Lifetime Membership and it isn't exactly cheap (granted cheap is a subjective term). This is a mutually beneficial website and the link provides mutual beneficial content. I think that's great, as long as we are aware and it's voluntary.

Like they say, if the product is free, you're the product. Which in lately seems to be a fair exchange.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-15-2017, 01:57 AM
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What the hell does all this shit have to do with rake and trail? Jeez.
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