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Can the Ninja 300 really keep up with a supersport?

17K views 57 replies 24 participants last post by  TheBlank 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
I'm sure you have heard of people saying how Ninja 300 will keep up with supersport like YZF-R1, ZX-10R, 1299 Panigale and all that stuff.

To this day, I still find it very hard to believe.

If you look around on Google and YouTube, you will see many people on Ninja 300 keeping up with YZF-R1 no problem.

I think I've seen GSX-R1000 getting smoked by Ninja 300 on the track.

My question is, can Ninja 300 REALLY keep up with supersport?

I still think that every time I see those videos/comments, I feel like whoever was riding the supersport was going easy so that Ninja 300 could keep up, or the rider on supersport really sucked.

I don't know about the new R1, but 2009 R1 could run Nurburgring in 7:10, which is really fast. How could Ninja 300 ever keep up?

Because if Ninja 300 was actually performing THAT well, MotoGP, Isle of Man TT, etc. team should be building Ninja 300 based bike, not 1000cc supersport.

I know that car guys love to say how AE86 would keep up with NSX, GT-R, Supra and all that...and I still find it hard to believe too.

Don't get me wrong, I know Ninja 300 serves its purpose, fun, economical, cheap, good learners bike...but when people compare the Ninja 300 with supersport? I kind of go like...really???
 
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#2 ·
It's like putting a Lamborghini Aventador against a Mazda Miata. Will the Miata keep up? 99% of the time it will not. But put both these cars on a tight go cart track and I bet the Miata will give the Lambo a run for its money.

Same goes for the 300. I say 99% of the time, it won't be able to keep up with any 600, but put it on a go cart track, it may actually come out on top.

I'm saying this based on the same rider/driver. Let the driver/rider do a lap in both vehicles. I wouldn't be surprised if he/she gets a better lap time in the smaller/lighter weight vehicle.
 
#9 ·
In a city environment, I want to see a liter bike "keep up with me". Here I am riding in NYC.

PS - I used to ride a 900cc Fireblade (not exactly a liter bike, but close enough). There's absolutely no way I would've fit through those spots with a larger bike.
I didn't mean like going through traffic jam when I said Ninja 300 keeping up with supersport... but that video was pretty cool.

Here are better options

Kawasaki Z125
https://www.kawasaki.com/Products/2017-Z125-PRO?cm_re=VEHICLEDETAILS-_-HOMEPAGBUCKET-_-Z125-PRO


Honda Grom
http://powersports.honda.com/2015/grom.aspx
 
#14 ·
Small bikes keep up in places where traction becomes a limitation instead of power. A super bike doing all it can to not lose it in a tight corner is going roughly the same speed or slightly slower than the same ninja. The advantage of the lighter, weaker bike is that you can get on the throttle much sooner than the super bike can because if he even looks at the throttle the wrong way, the sudden surge of power will cause the rear to slide out and he's taking a trip through the overrun. That lighter and weaker baby ninja lets the rider get on the throttle and accelerate much sooner than the guy on the big bike can due to the application of power to the rear wheel while being close to the power band. There used to be a train of thought that it's better to be just under the power band at corner entry that way you can start accelerating sooner and not have the sudden power hit from being in the power band upset the bike causing a loss in traction. More big bike riders though would rather minimize lean time as much as possible and just gun it when fully vertical. Trust me, many of those liter bike riders on the track are absolutely jealous of your ability to pretty much jump right back on the throttle pretty soon while they're too damn scared of that initial bite of power to try it themselves on their literbike. Although that quickly goes away once you're on the part of the track that plays to their strengths. You see a lot of the smaller bikes keep up on the very tight technical stuff involving more changes in direction and a lot less exercise on anchoring the right wrist down at WOT.
 
#23 ·
smaller bike with a BETTER suspension - yes. That is where the N 300 is weakest, I hear. Along side with so, so brakes. So a N300 with $2500 dollars worth of upgrades May smoke a larger bike, on the put-put course.

The question of course is "who cares".

Personally I'm going to upgrade the "smoke-ability" of my N300, by reducing its sprung mass. It's the best way to do it.

It's my "beer-reduction tune up" Lose 15 pounds in the gut ... and that little sucker should fly, straights and corners, both!! :D
 
#20 ·
yea this is exactly what I was talking about.

I still don't understand why Ninja 300 would have an advantage over R1 around the corner.
Twisting around traffic jam or going around parking lot? Sure...but at Laguna Seca? Really?

The R1 has serious lean angle with state of the art suspension (unlike Ninja 300), dual disk brakes for better braking performance with 120 high performance front tire, 190 rear tire for more lean angle and G-force (skid pad?)


 
#19 ·
Yep... That pretty much how it is at the track... you pass them in the corners... they pass you in the straight... Your still on full throttle and they are already starting to brake... then you pass them again... Its a lovely game of cat and mouse...
But skill level plays a huge part in all this. For example: A couple weeks ago I had a couple track days at Button Willow back to back. The first track day was with Let's Ride, The TDO that I work for, After I finished my job at Tech, I went out in C group. I was pretty much in control of all the corners. The next day was a private track day that is held for people in the industry. So you had a very fast group of control riders, racers, etc... There was no over braking with these guys... These guys and gals, were Way more skilled than me, most anyway... Some of you know this, but it was my third track day and the third time I was on a bike in 8 years (mini's not included in that) So I suck and am very rusty. In fact I have to make a concious effort not to think I can go as fast as I used to and get myself in trouble. But anyway I did find a few big bikes I could play with, a couple of them were Duc's. Ducs are always slow at the track, because most people that own them are too afraid of dropping them, so they go slow, Sometimes painfully. We also had a few 250 and 300 racers from CVMA, They were probably just as fast as a majority of the big bikes.
One thing that may help put things in perspective; You have a big bike and a little bike going down the straight and heading toward a corner. Lets say that given corner calls for a entry corner speed of 60mph. So out of the last corner both bikes are hard on the throttle. The bigger bike shifts through the gears and achieves a speed of 130mph. I on the 300 am trying to go as fast as I can before my brake marker, say I get up to 100mph. If we both have the same tip in points, the big bike will have to start rolling off throttle at brake marker number 3 and has to scrub off 70mph. I on the other hand only have to scrub off 40mph with a lighter bike so at brake marker number 2 he slowed his bike down to about 75mph so at that point I am still on full throttle to brake marker number 1 and I go by him going 25 mph faster than him and beat him to the corner...
This is the first time I have ridden a 300, my bikes before were bigger twins. So when I first did my track day I was a little shocked at why these bigger bike were slowing down so early, I am like why are they braking I am still on full throttle.. LOL you get used to it..
 
#22 ·
The ninja 300 can destroy a supersport at the track or in the canyons, but only if the rider on the 300 is a significantly better rider. I will lap faster on my 300 faster than almost everyone on their supersports and superbikes (except the racers) at trackdays and can lap faster than the required lap times for the 600's.
With that being said, there is no way I could keep up with someone of equal skill level on a 600/1000. Supersports and superbikes have better handling, suspension, power, clearance and a bigger contact patch and weigh a similar weight. They are superior in every way. It'ld be a different story if you compared a moto3 or 125GP to a SS
 
#24 ·
It really does come down to skills, but the point most people miss is that the skillsets just don't develop quickly for guys that start out riding 600/1000's. When you can make up for your horrible cornering skills by twisting your wrist, you've got no incentive to learn how to corner properly. If you start out on a 300, you really learn quickly not to give away that momentum in the corners because it's gonna take you so long to get it back...
 
#25 ·
This right here is very true people. The 300 is no frills in the corners. It gives you the right feel for the road and also allows for newbie mistakes when taking corners at speed. I have blown through corners while rolling on the throttle and also with no throttle at all. This bike isn't just a learning bike. This bike sharpens skillsets.
 
#26 · (Edited)
It has everything to do with the rider and the limitations of the bikes themselves. With a supersport, you have not just a faster bike but a bike with uprated parts, assuming both bikes are nicely-tuned and set-up properly for their riders. The 300 (with a rider of sufficient skill) on the street can smoke a supersport if the supersport rider can't use their straight-line power advantage. With equal-skill, the supersport rider will smoke the 300 on all but the tightest tracks/twisties.

I've ridden a lot of bikes now, and I tend to ride around my same speed on each. But, the experience of riding each bike is different with the way they put down power, how they handle, how they turn-in, finish turns, braking, etc. The 300 is great because it's all about corner entry and keeping momentum, which fits with my smooth (but not all that fast) style. I'm more about 'the pace' than just being super fast (for a lot of reasons). But, some literbikes are so powerful and have such a harsh power hit (think 2015 R1 in Mode 1) where I think I am much slower than I am on the 300 on the same roads. With a supersport/literbike that has ultra smooth power delivery, I'm faster because my braking can be later and my corner exits are faster...and if it handles well then it encourages a slightly faster pace because my confidence is higher (which is also helped by suspension, tires, overall 'feel').

But, the rider will always make the biggest difference...and the way that bike fits the rider and inspires confidence is a big part of what the rider does. That's why these days I won't buy a bike until I've ridden it. :D
 
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#27 ·
^^ One big word that should be emphasized there is 'confidence'. You can explore the limits of the 300 without getting in too deep, and when you know the limits it's so much easier to ride with confidence. When the limits are so high and the reactions so sharp that they're extreme or jarring, your confidence level is naturally lower and likely to build much more slowly.

I feel comfortable cornering hard and giving throttle in the corner on the 300, I feel apprehensive about hitting a corner too fast on the 10 or opening the throttle while leaned. Confidence plays a huge role in the ability to perform better on either bike, and the 300 naturally will give anyone more confidence given equal seat time.
 
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#29 ·
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#30 ·
Another thing we don't realize is that "keeping up" isn't too difficult if you're on the street. Look at this guy. He went over 130mph on the streets. Yet a family sedan, a Ford Fusion (Taurus???) was able to "keep up" with the bike easily.

His bike goes 0-60 in what? 4 seconds or less?
The Ford Fusion 7 or 8 seconds?

 
#31 ·
Agree with most here, its just the rider. I was passing most 600/1000 bikes on the track with my 300, some I could stay ahead of if they waited long enough to hit the throttle. I felt very fast and never had anyone passing me that I could not catch and overtake in a corner. Yesterday I bought a ZX6 as a second bike... My lap times are going to be much faster, brakes alone on this thing is enough to make it faster on the same track without the additional 60hp. Riding a 300 before a bigger bike for sure makes you improve your skill much much faster, I have only put 100 miles on my new bike and already feel comfortable with the front end lifting off the ground as I am still leaned over on corner exits. Cant wait to get it to the track.
 
#32 ·
It depends on the road. Bigger bikes with decent suspension can gobble up poorer pavement where you'll be hopping about. Higher displacement bikes will destroy you on an open road with fast sweepers, but I think (street) riders on supersports get into some bad point & squirt riding habits that make them struggle when things get really twisty.

A lot of books you read will emphasise throttle control. On closing throttle it still applies, but putting power-on is not a big deal on the 300, it just doesn't have the torque to upset the bike much; you can crank it and not really worry. but try a bigger bike; oh boy will you understand it. Likewise having to worry about braking properly with all that speed and high performance brakes, it's intimidating. You can really be clumsy on corner entry on the 300; arrive like a hot mess, forks compressed, slipper clutch wheezing, and it won't hurt you, it's why it's such a great starter bike.

The other thing is, it surprised me how much input some of the bigger bikes need to actually lean over; you just need to think it on the 300 and it happens.

That being said, if you had a rider that wasn't scared of something like a ZX-6R, and had an even rudimentary understanding of what the bike would do, they'd absolutely stomp you. Especially the 600s. They're still very light but have way more pull and stopping power.
 
#35 ·
It's not necessarily that.
An equally skilled rider on the R1 will more than likely be ahead of the Ninja, how much so depends on the course.
In a tighter more technical course, lightness, better suspension (not saying the ninja has better suspension) and better tires will be more beneficial than power.
You only have so much available traction at any given moment. If you have to use most of it for cornering, the power isn't going to help you.
Skill obviously plays a huge factor as well.
 
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